Dead Pedal revisted 2013+

[Wiredawg]

My order for the Stealth Module got canceled due to production delays on the C&C chip. I've been driving my 5500 a lot as a daily driver and am pretty happy with it, even with the detuned 325 HP. I believe for my purpose, the torque management is worth the 38.5K Lb GCVWR. Prior to these Ram trucks, I would have had to buy a Freightliner M2 for around $140K. They have torque management too and have to be driven like big trucks with high tow ratings. My truck was about half that cost. I won't win any races, but might with a 30K lb trailer hitched to it.

Not to argue, but to discuss, true dead pedal is zero acceleration. Had Caddy that had transmission software issue where engine would not go above idle when trying to accelerate from a stop. Also had dead pedal when TPS went out on my 02 and 03 trucks. For my situation, heavy acceleration keeps tyranny in first longer, just like it would in a standard transmission. Also, I'm driving my truck a little more aggressively and my trucks "adaptive" transmission seems to have adapted and so have I.

Everyone has their experience and expectations with these trucks... mine is to have the most capable tow platform for the money. BTW, when I test drove this truck, I drove it like I stole it and I liked it.

And, if you put a tune on the Aisin, it will hold it. I ran my 2009 4500 with a 90Hp 180 Lb Ft Tq and it held fine. The 68C Aisin was rated at 730 Lb Ft of Tq and almost 800 Lb Ft on it.

So, it's likely chip or tuner is the solution for folks who want more low end acceleration.

Finally, I'm on the fence whether I will purchase the Stealth Module when they get the C&C tune into production. Knowing me, I probably will, as I enjoy the power enhancements like most everyone else. Cheers, Ron

 

[Cummins12V98]

I know someone that added a tuner to his 2013 DRW/AISIN and there are issues with the 2-3 shift towing that are not there without the tuner. It's an EDGE product he runs in the basic towing mode.

 

[terb]

Its how quick you can build Boost, No boost = Lag

It's also how fast fuel can be added, No fuel = Lag

 

[TCDiesel]

terb correct.

There are seven of these in every 6.7 Rail, 1 for the CP3 to Rail and 6 more form Rail to cross tubes. You simply cannot remove the DP or lag to equal 5.9 status without removing them

.

 

[Mike Wenrich]

If it were the air box, why wouldn't all Aison equipped trucks from 13 up have the lag? Not all do. Only some. Well, a lot. And adding a BD throttle device (can't recall the correct nomenclature at the moment) helps with the lag. Seems it's built in computer programing but again, why don't ALL of them have it. Quite the mystery.

 

[SnoKing]

If it were the air box, why wouldn't all Aison equipped trucks from 13 up have the lag? Not all do. Only some. Well, a lot. And adding a BD throttle device (can't recall the correct nomenclature at the moment) helps with the lag. Seems it's built in computer programing but again, why don't ALL of them have it. Quite the mystery.

Driving style!!!

 

[TCDiesel]

If it were the air box, why wouldn't all Aison equipped trucks from 13 up have the lag? Not all do. Only some. Well, a lot. And adding a BD throttle device (can't recall the correct nomenclature at the moment) helps with the lag. Seems it's built in computer programing but again, why don't ALL of them have it. Quite the mystery.

6.7 2013+ have many contributing factors to cause lag / DP, Fuel / Air / Tune / conditions / Driving style all are contributors.

 

[TFucili]

I have not driven a CTD with dead pedal, but I have owned a vehicle that had it. To me there is a distinct difference between slow/laggy response and dead pedal. Dead pedal to me is ZERO response to the foot feed from the engine room. Once you experience that while merging into traffic, you will never confuse it with anything else.

 

[Mike Wenrich]

I'll drink to that. But that's a low standard. Seconds of no response is frightening. Teaches you to ramp up/gear down before passing and making sure you don't enter traffic without a lot of room. SnoKing always responds to this post as a driving style problem. I had a factory RAM tech drive with me while he was hooked in on their computer. He acknowledged the lag is a problem and they have no fix for it. Some have it worse than mine. If mine were any worse I would not have the truck today. I've learned to work around it but it's still aggravating and devalues the truck. Who would want to buy this from me in this condition? And unlike the dealers, I am not the type of person to sell it without divulging the issue. Maybe someday there will be a suitable aftermarket fix. RAM is not going to do anything about it no matter how many reports to the guv'ment there are. To them, it's not a safety issue.

 

[Wiredawg]

Mike,

I believe there are degrees of impact on this issue, as you are a prime example of the worst end of it. Because the dealer techs can't figure it out makes it hard for me to understand if it's a single root cause or a string of root causes with an additive result. I believe I'm on the other end of that issue where it is just a little more torque management than I've been used to over my previous 2009 4500 with the previous generation Aisin, different transmission programming, different Cummins engine config, and higher rings and pinions. I drove mine today and don't even notice it anymore.

Taking it all the way back to the top: It's good to hear about your problem for our information and folks with similar issues. If the dealer has quit helping and you've exhausted your warranty claim process with FCA, I would recommend filing a complaint with the BBB and the State Attorney General for resolution. I've had good results with these folks on my solar electrical contractor. They can possibly help you too.

Anyway, good luck with any further actions to get satisfaction and please keep us posted on your progress.

Cheers, Ron

 

[p-Bar]

BBB is waste they are financed by business owners. How about calling NHTSB and see if this is something they are looking into? Attorney General for state sounds good. Good luck I'm following this thread as I have issues with my Hyundai genensis with aisin 8 spd.

 

[Wiredawg]

Actually, it was the BBB that worked here in TX. I did include in my statement that if there was no remedy, that I would file a complaint to the Texas Attorney General. The solar contractor complied. This is not an opinion, it's a fact.

Mike, I'd give it try... it doesn't cost anything but time and tactful wording.

Ron

 

[Mike Wenrich]

Thanks Wiredawg but I have exhausted all my options. I waited too long for the lemon law option (18 months in Ca) and filed my complaint with the U.S.eless government. No response from them of course. I'm just another complaint. It's my problem now and sadly I have to say I would not purchase another RAM after 8 recalls on this one and the lag problem. When the trucks works it's a towing delight. I'm about done with trucks as a matter of fact. None of them with their regulations come without problems it seems. But spending this much on a tow mule has also become ridiculous. I can buy a trailer with a dump bed or a travel trailer to sleep in and tow it with a 1/2 ton gasser. Or my 2004.5 Dodge 2500 that has been great and thankfully I still own. I only weighed in on this because it has been an ongoing thread that has no good ending it seems. An after market device has helped me but I still have the dreaded lag in the top three gears.

 

[Wiredawg]

Mike, copy that. I actually sold my 03 2500 to my niece and just bought my wife a 2019 Ram 1500 4x4 with the 5.7L v8 gasser. We love the acceleration and quietness of it. My new 5500 is likely my last big truck.

Take care and see ya on the TDR. Cheers, Ron

 

[Wiredawg]

Friends,

Rather than start a new thread on this subject, I specifically looked this one up to add a new experience I had a few days ago. I was in the 5500 and at a T intersection with a stop sign and traffic was really heavy. I saw a gap, gave the truck almost full throttle, got out there pretty nice, but wasn't accelerating very fast. Fortunately, there was a full paved shoulder, i pulled onto it, came off the accelerator, up shifted, then was able to accelerate onto the two lane highway briskly.

My point is, under crisis acceleration, truck lagged a lot. FYI, I did add the Dr Performance module adding 60 HP. It all happened so fast, it was difficult to interpret everything that happened. This was more than normal delay for a 12.2KLb truck to get going, the truck had huge lag. I think it may be TQ management programming. I had reported here and other threads I never floor the truck and actually see better results accelerating under less throttle. I wonder if either the TPS or other sensor reads full throttle or some programmed point, where it engages TQ management until either it catches up with itself or reduce throttle to reduce or turn off TQ management?

Being honest here, I ordered an Edge Amp'd Throttle Booster to see if it helps. Although, this is less than a 1% occurrence for me, it's enough for me to be concerned.

Anyway. I would be happy to hear from y'all on your progress figuring it out and what works and what doesn't.

Thanks, Ron

 

[Newsa]

I have the g56. No dead pedal or pedal lag. But torque management is programmed by speedometer speeds.

I can see that torque managment ends completely at right around 60 mph. There is a higher level of torque management below 40 mph. I can manually shift through the gears. And hit 4th gear at 40-45 mph. At that speed, i can hit the resume on the cruise control and it will slowly speed up to 55-60 and then at 60, it will lay me back in my seat and take literally 3 seconds to go from 60-80 mph. It frustrates those who come up an interstate entrance ramp behind me and see me not speeding up fast at 45-50. Then as they are passing me, they can't pass me because my torque management just hit the speed where it no longer restricts torque and cruise control resume is suddenly rocketing me forward. It can be frustrating to me and other motorists

 

[AH64ID]

But torque management is programmed by speedometer speeds.

And engine rpm, and what gear you’re in....

 

[Newsa]

And engine rpm, and what gear you’re in....

Bob4x4 says the G56 equipped trucks are exclusively torque limited by speed only. My experience reinforces this belief.

He said it has been this way for a couple of generations of Rams.

The computer doesn't have a way of knowing which gear you are in.

 

[Wiredawg]

And engine rpm, and what gear you’re in....

I have no idea where the tach was and pretty sure was in first. This was fast and I was busy watching traffic, especially when I wasn't accelerating as planned. I need to see what capability my Edge CTS2 to record events. I may need to get her up to operating temp, take it out on the highway when there's less traffic , see if I can duplicate it. Just an educated guess that is wasn't reduced airflow. Interesting backing off accelerator allowing an upshift, then getting into it less hard worked.

Just an FYI: This truck reaches MAX TQ/HP at lower RPM than PUs

Advertised hp 325 @ 2400
Peak Torque 750 @ 1600
Governed Speed 3000

i don't think anything is broken or faulting, I think this is the hardest I've laid into the accelerator. I need to learn how this truck acts under full or nearly full throttle so I can adjust for it.

I'll post what I find.

Ron

 

[AH64ID]

Bob4x4 says the G56 equipped trucks are exclusively torque limited by speed only. My experience reinforces this belief.

He said it has been this way for a couple of generations of Rams.

The computer doesn't have a way of knowing which gear you are in.

The computer does know which gear you are in, with math.

Simple example is what gears cruise control works in when you lower the cc speed. My 05 wouldn’t go into cc in 3rd. Put it in 4th at the same speed and it would hold. So yes, the ECM knows what gear you are in.

There are also torque limiting tables in the ECM that are based on engine rpm, not vehicle speed.

Bottom line is that there are multiple factors effecting torque availability on manual trans trucks.