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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) dealership claims injector pump timing failure but have good lift pump pressure

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Hey just finished up watching Part V VP 44 Install on Engine - Putfile.com - the entire series. It was just what we needed to decide to give this a go. It seems like the keyway is indeed the key to all of this and can make or break the project. Also the cam sensor was noted. Does anyone know if it is good to go ahead and replace this during installation as well? We are going to be securing our stay here at the campground and getting everything lined up. Please keep us in mine. This next week will be a Doozy!
 
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Wooooo - Got Major New Info From A Tech Specialist!

He alerted us that our injector pump might indeed still be under warranty if we had the 7 year / 100,000 mile warranty! We pulled out our warranty info. We have the standard 2002 warranty booklet. Our emissions warranty in the booklet covers us for 7 years or 70,000 on longterm. BUT WE SIGNED AN ADDENDUM WHICH IS VALID ONLY TO THE ORIGINAL OWNER WHICH EXTENDS THIS TO 7 YEARS / 100,000 MILES! Under COVERED COMPONENTS It says the following "Diesel Engine:Cylinder Block and all Internal parts; Cylinder Head Assemblies; Core Plugs; FUEL INJECTION PUMP AND INJECTORS; Timing Gear Drive Belts and Internal Parts: Valve Covers; Water Pump and Housing; Seals and Gaskets for listed components only. I have NO IDEA why the dealership did not inform us that this was under warranty! However I am elated that it is! Also under Coverage: Replacement Parts[under 7 years/70,000 miles long term related parts: cylinder head, fuel pump, engine control module, turbocharger] it states "The owner..... may elect to use parts other than new genuine DaimlerChrysler Motors Company LLC/MOPAR or DaimlerChrysler Motors Company LLC/MOPAR approved rebuilt parts and assemblies for such maintenance, replacement or repair; however the cost of such service or parts and subsequent failures resulting from such service or parts will not be covered under this emission control system warranty, except for Emergency Repairs..... "

Sounds like we can definitely get our injection pump fixed under warranty. Will doing the refit on the rail with the lift pump kill any future warrenty on the injector pump they replace? I don't want the in-fuel-tank-pump. Once that breaks I am really up the creek. What is your verdict? Even if they say replacement of the lift pump to the rail will void any future warranty work on the injector pump - should we do what we know we should: NOT TAKE THE IN TANK PUMP and just deal with no more future warranty on the injector pump or throw in the towel and accept their crappy system? We are leaning on risking the future warranty on a decent lift pump. What about you? We only have 9 more month before we hit the age limit. We purchased our truck in May 02.
 
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Daniel and Toni,

Good for you! A free VP!

DO NOT TAKE THE IN TANK PUMP UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE!!!!

With only 9 months left the possibility of needing that warranty is slim now that you will have a new VP. Whether or not the dealer will deny warranty on a truck with aftermarket lift pump depends on the dealer, some will, some won't.

You will have a fuel pressure gauge so as long as the pressure is above 5 psi at all times (idle, acceleration, cruising, WOT, pulling a load) you are good to go. When the lift pump is no longer sufficient I highly recommend an AirDog. I have over 300,000 on mine and all I do is change filters every so often. The filters are less expensive than the stock filters or FASS filters and the filter system is much better than stock. I have 19 psi all the time until the filter starts to get clogged. I must admit I just changed my AirDog filter last week and it had 150,000 miles on it!!!!! Yikes! Buying clean fuel and keeping it clean is a good thing. PM me for an AirDog dealer.

Godspeed,
Trent
 
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Dodge will make you take the intank pump as part of the warranty. That pump is a POS, so it is up to you if you want to go that route.



I changed my own pump a couple years ago. I left the three back injector lines installed and just pushed them against the block to R&R to pump. I got my pump from Midwest Fuel Injection, as they do not charge you a core unless you fail to return the old one. I made my own puller out of a piece of angle iron. You can buy the puller for around 35 bucks. If was not that bad of a job. MWFI says to clean the shaft and gear before installing the new pump, as they want a dry fit of the parts.



BTW, you can bar the engine via the nut on the alternator.



I just printed off the online instructions and did not need to use my Dodge Service Manuals.



You might want to have new gaskets on hand for the grid heaters.



SNOKING
 
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Time to go to battle with the mob!

Well our plan right now is to go down and force them to acknowledge we are under warranty and get them to replace the injector pump. According to our warranty book, we have the right to choose Mopar or aftermarket. They just will not pay for aftermarket of course. We also have the right to choose Dodge for free or someone else which won't be paid for. NOW the kicker we have learned is this: They will claim up and down that the injector pump will no longer be warranted. We have learned that is not true according to the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act: A Businessperson's Guide to Federal Warranty Law. They cannot deny any future warranty work just because I have an aftermarket lift pump. If the injector pump was to fail before May 09 when our warranty ends, and we could prove that our aftermarket lift pump puts out more than . 70 gal per minute of flow, they cannot deny the claim.
Since we have already paid $103. 78 for a "diagnosis" and diagnosis is covered according to the warranty book, they will owe us $3. 78. Plus since their diagnosis included needed a transfer pump, we are going to demand a new standard pump like we already have. They have to supply the part according to the warranty because we have the right to choose a Mopar part. We can then choose to have it installed with a kit on the side rail because we have the right to have such parts installed by a service of our choice our our expense, or just keep it for a backup and buy our own aftermarket like you suggest. We are going to keep our old pump and get it tested, because we don't think it is bad.
Now this could be a REAL battle when we hit Dodge. They have already tried to blow us off and refused to admit we were under warranty for repairs, despite the fact that this info is clear in their computer! However according to the Dodge warranty manual they HAVE TO DO THIS. Otherwise since there is no other Dodge dealer to supply warranty work, they will have to authorize "Emergency Repairs" by another service provider and accept the warranty of the aftermarket product. I HIGHLY DOUBT DC's warranty department will want that! It is time to go to battle with the mob :-{}. Also does anyone know if we have the right to keep our old injector pump if they don't send it for an overhaul and install a new one?
 
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Also I saw in my Genos mag that besides having many fuel pressure gauges for the lift pump, there is a tester called the Vulcan Performance Fuel Pressure Test Kit which installs at banjo bolt on 98's - 02's. Can the tester itself be install permanently as a "gauge"?
 
They will replace your injection pump, they should test your lift pump.



Is this an aftermarket lift pump?



The intank lift pumps work perfectly fine on stock to slightly moddified trucks, I have installed hundreds of them on stock trucks and I bet 99% of them are still on the trucks running fine. Its 100 times better than the pumps mounted on the engine. Yes they can't compete with the aftermarket pumps but they aren't made for moddified trucks
 
I would just buy a fuel pressure gauge, its a must on a vp44 truck. You need a gauge kit and a banjo bolt. You install the bolt in the supply line running from the filter housing to the injection pump
 
Dodge Warranty department confirms covered total replacement

Mopartech, do you mean to just accept the in-tank pump and install it to the rail like we want to do? Is that what you are saying OR are you voting the other way to accept in-tank replacement? We just got done talking to Dodge's warranty division. We had to get referred to a senior contract service adviser however to get the final answers we need. Yes our injector pump is covered and yes so is the transfer pump. We requested that she contact our Dodge in Montrose and inform them that they should have noted this when we were in for diagnosis since it was on their computer! Ironically the telepnone # the dealership had here WAS DISCONNECTED! She had to call the 800# and was told our service adviser was with another customer and would have to call back. She took our #s and is suppose to call back. We have a reference # for our case and she said she would input the pertinent info that we are covered under the case reference. She could not advise us on the technical aspect of the aftermarket issue, she was not qualified. We are thinking to have them replace the injector pump of course and just have install another lift pump exactly as we have it now. We can do the conversion with "all yall's help"... . or like I said buy our own aftermarket and save the new replacement as an emergency backup.
 
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Dan & Toni,



Sounds like you guys are fighters... . good for you! I hope you give it to Dodge for all it's worth. If I were closer, I'd offer to lend a hand... I am a former UH-1H (Bell 212) mechanic.
 
Again, Dodge only has the intank pump and they will install it under warranty along with the new VP-44. You should let them do that, and then work on a new pump setup later. See if they will let you have the old tank module!! SNOKING
 
Again, Dodge only has the intank pump and they will install it under warranty along with the new VP-44. You should let them do that, and then work on a new pump setup later. See if they will let you have the old tank module!! SNOKING



I would say accept the in tank pump ONLY if they let you keep the old tank module.

mishkaya
 
tater_chip gets fiesty at the dealership

Well we dropped off Bucksnort (our truck loving named because we bought it in Tennessee) at the dealership. As to be expected the BS was flying. They had a printout ready which said that the injector pump was covered, lift pump NOT COVERED. Of course I gave them our reference number from dealing with customer service for Dodge at 800-521-9922. The lady assured us she had put the info that our lift pump was covered under the reference number for our call. The service guy calls the number and talks to the DEALER side of this number and we are told that it is NOT COVERED. I tell him it is covered under the 7year/70,000 miles coverage on page 15 of our warranty booklet #@$%!. In the meantime ramblin_man goes over to the parts counter. [They are claiming also that they cannot just replace our lift pump and reinstall it where it currently is because they don't make it anymore. ] Ramblin_man gets the same at the parts counter. Basically it came down to this: we told them to just forget trying to get the coverage on the lift pump. WE DON'T WANT THE IN-PUMP REPLACEMENT LIFT PUMP. They have agreed to replace the injector pump.



In the midst of this a grandpa man came out and asked if everything was ok. Ramblin_man tells him what we wanted: the injector pump replaced and our lift pump tested for flow. We told him that we are getting 12 psi on our lift pump. He confirmed that our lift pump ought to be OK getting that much pressure AFTER ALL IT DOES NOT REQUIRE THAT MUCH PRESSURE TO DO THE JOB! We asked if the lift pump had been tested for flow exceeding . 70 gal/min. Nothing written in diagnosis indicated that it had been tested. [Service dude caught red-handed in the lie that our lift pump was causing the failure - how could they know it had not been tested!!!!!] Grandpa tells us that it will be tested and injector pump replaced. If the lift pump does not have enough flow, he will call us so we can order our aftermarket pump. I tell Grandpa that it was nice to talk to someone who knew what he was talking about... ... . So that is where it stands till tomorrow. Still planning on ordering aftermarket product for lift pump and kit for relocation to rail..... even if flow is OK.
 
I can't seem to contact Diesel Dan, but want to thank him for making that video: Part V VP 44 Install on Engine - Putfile.com. So far we have our fingers crossed to get-er-done as we have stated under warranty with an aftermarket lift pump. I am so sorry if anyone feels cheated out of a 'fix it in camp' story. But as long as Bucksnort keeps on rolling, that day will come again. And we can get out Diesel Dan's video and getting back up here with you and we can all have some fun! We aren't done with this yet though - not till we roll out of Montrose with Bucksnort.
 
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Hello Dan and Toni from 'Down Under. Read the updates on your progress on the IP replacement. Way to go and hold em' to it. Only on the "TDR" will you get this kind of participation. And, yes, the 74-ER is my favorite bus. Best wishes.

gregg
 
I agree with Mopartech

They will replace your injection pump, they should test your lift pump.



Is this an aftermarket lift pump?



The intank lift pumps work perfectly fine on stock to slightly moddified trucks, I have installed hundreds of them on stock trucks and I bet 99% of them are still on the trucks running fine. Its 100 times better than the pumps mounted on the engine. Yes they can't compete with the aftermarket pumps but they aren't made for moddified trucks

If you cant modifiy the suction line in the tank to flow more fuel,the intank pump is a decent way to improve volume. If you intend on creating more horsepower, gang the intank pump with an external pump. I also have put in many of these pumps,without any problems.
 
Our issues with the IN-TANK-PUMP

We have gotten so much conflicting info on that stupid lift pump warranty than on anything else. How something can have fuel flowing through it and not be a part of emissions is beyond me. I am supposing that they try to force everyone to accept that it is a part of the short-term coverage which expires at 50,000 miles instead of 70,000... . and therefore by default the 100,000. It is a fuel pump - how there can be a debate about that is stupid. Also to clear this all up we are the original owners of Bucksnort and Bucksnort only had original manufacturer components.

We have also read that some are having a great experience with their in-tank-pumps and some hate it with a passion and wish it was never invented. In our situation, being on the road - which also means breaking down on the road - we would do ourselves NO FAVORS by accepting the in-tank pump. If Bucksnort keeps rolling - one day we will be dealing with the lift pump again. Who wants to be in say, Chinle, AZ, have a sudden loss of pressure from the lift pump and be stuck miles and miles and miles away from not just Dodge, but ANY SHOP WHICH COULD DO THE REPAIRS to the in-tank-pump! We have been having these symptoms and under the wrong impression about them since Holbrook, AZ. We went up to Chinle, on to Moab, Utah and back to Monticello and over some passes to Montrose, CO towing not just a trailer - this is our "home" we are towing behind us. We are extremely thankful that we made it here... . over 1000 miles past our first symptom which actually barely started to show in Mesa, AZ. In our situation, this decision makes sense to us. At least we can always have a spare on hand and do the change out nomatter where we are as soon as we sense anything suspicious or see it on the gauge. [Aircraft mechanics get freaked anyway about anything electrical around fuel - much less in the fuel. ]

I do want to post this link a friend sent us to help us locate where to install the banjo bolt for the new lift pump pressure gauge. It is actually a schematic of a VP44 repair, step by step which can only help others reading this and having to do the replacement. We have it bookmarked along with all the other great videos and info suggested by you for that special day. :-laf REMOVAL
 
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the lift pump is covered under the engine warrenty plain and simple. Its not under the emmissions warrenty. The fuel system is considered engine so I don't know what they are trying to prove. They must not get a lot of diesels in there, thats what it sounds like to me.
 
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