Gooseneck GVWR

[CTDCAL]

Anyone out there know if anyone is making or building a GN flatbed trailer rated for 10k# or less???? I would like about a 18 footer, but here in CA if your flatbed trailer is over 10k#s (and I mean just 1# over) you need a full commercial drivers license with medical certificate, just like a long haul driver except for the airbrake cert. I currently have a 7k# bumper pull car hauler, but sure like the feel of a gooseneck better. My weight, including the trailer will almost always be under 10k#. I've checked Ebay and google searching high and low and the lowest gooseneck was 12k#. I would think that someone is making a lighter duty gooseneck flatbed out there. The CHP has been cracking down on even towing a trailer rated over 10k# empty for about the last year around here, big fine if you don't have the full boat license which costs some serious money to get and maintain, not worth it to just haul and occasional small piece of equipment around.



Any ideas would be appreciated.

 

[MMeier]

CTD, check out my sig, I'll check with my gang in Oklahoma and see what they say. Where abouts in Cali. are you?

 

[Silver600]

I'm not sure what you haul on your flatbed, I move a small tractor (JD 850) between my parent's place and mine, I bought a gooseneck just for the ease of towing compared to bumper pull. If you managed to find one under 10K GVWR you might run into a problem with the load you can put on it. I bought a Big Tex 14k (20ft + 5 dovetail) and it weighs 4950 so I can put 9000 on it and still be legal. I don't think an 18 ft would be much lighter so you'll probably have a max payload around 5500-6000 pounds. I can't seem to find any laws about flatbed trailers, everything seems to refer to RVs. My truck is a SRW so the GVWR is 9900 plus 14k flatbed which puts me at 23900 GCWR, well under the 26K for a class A (I will need it when the new dually comes in). I am going to get a class A for my RV but it can be a non-commercial and I already have the med card for my ambulance license. I don't see why I would need a commercial class A for a 25 foot flatbed that is not used commercially but the non-commercial is ok for a 38 foot RV, then again it is California.

 

[MMeier]

Gotta love these rules and regulations !!

 

[PatrickCampbell]

Any manufacturer will give you the weight limit you want if you buy new provided it is LOWER than the factory GVWR of the trailer. Obviously you are going to want to start with a light trailer.



BigTex makes an 18 foot lowboy that weighs $3000. The GVWR is 12000 lbs. You could simply tell them I want the GVWR to be 10000 lbs or 9999 and they will put that on the tag. This would give you 7000 lbs of payload.



I tried to read the California CDL manual to check on the info but it that thing is like 5X as long as a standard CDL manual full of annoying rules that I didn't care to sort through.



http://www.bigtextrailers.com/spec/12gp.html

 

[woodsrat]

I bought a LOAD-MAX they will make you about anything and the prices are good i got a 40GN out the door for 6000. 00 it had a 21000gross weight. Also PM TXgooseneck on here im sure he can hook you. Havent dealt with him personally but seems like a stand up guy on here.

 

[dmhollister]

I was under the impression that the CDL regulations were uniform thoughout the country to a federal standard. If that is true then the gross combined vehicle weight rating for both the tow rig and trailer has to be over 26,001#'s to require a commercial license. Maybe CA is not part of the country anymore?



Another option I don't know if you have explored yet is to install a load distributing hitch on your bumper pull like this



http://www.drawtite-hitches.com/WD/singlebar_WD_hitch.htm



It really helped with stability of heavy loads on our trailer.

 

[CTDCAL]

Thanks for all the info, what I am hoping to find is manufacturer who makes a lighter gooseneck flatbed trailer (meaning the actual weight of the trailer empty) that would be around 2500 lbs. I normally only carry/haul about 6k to 7k, one or more small tractors and implements or one larger 7k# tractor. What I see with most of the GN's made out there is that they are really heavy duty with big steel in them to take lots of weight. I never thought of having the GVWR of the trailer labeled down by the manufacturer, that is a good idea if I could find one light enough so my load capacity is not brought down too much.



As far as the Commercial License Laws here in California, (Silver600 be careful), I have talked to the commercial CHP guys and that stuff is buried in the law, but it is about a $2000 to $3000 fine if you are caught pulling your trailer without a full Class A less the airbrake cert. I know, I got stopped empty pulling a 14k# gooseneck and was advised not to do it anymore (I did not get cited but the warning was enough for me to start looking for a different trailer that is why I posted this message).



Here is the deal in CA as I understand it: Any flatbed trailer with a GVWR over 10k# (meaining 10,001 and up) is a commerical vehicle in CA (I don't know about other states, but I have been told that Oregon is fairly liberal about this). Because of this you need a commercial license to pull it, empty or not. This apparenlty has nothing to do with your combined GVWR, which has a whole other set of rules and weight limits).



The exceptions to this are a horse trailer, stock trailer and R. V. 's all under a certain GVWR (I don't know the numbers without looking them up but it is my understanding that you would have to be pulling the absolute biggest 5er or horse trailer to be in violation of the any license requirements).



Also there is an exemption for farmers pulling all sorts of trailers (some of questionable construction), they don't even need to have them licensed if they are going from one ranch to another with their equipment provided the miles are within certain perameters (again without looking it up I don't know the miles but it aint very far).



What happened around here is that a new CHP guy took over the commercial enforcement and he has been all over people towing any kind of trailer. He knows the law and most people don't so they are getting pinched. This seems to be trend in Cal, as other parts of the state are reporting similar things happening. Last year the CHP went on a campaine to slow people towing down and every RV, Boat, or anything else being towed was getting stopped for going over 55 mph (probably a good thing since I routinely see people towing lots of stuff at 70+ mph). I have not seen a lot of big rigs stopped for speeding though. Your average CHP officer will not know most of these intricate licensing and weight laws here in Cal as I have asked and most just shrugged and said that they don't deal with that stuff it is up to the guy assigned to commercial duty.

 

[CTDCAL]

Another question, since you probably just read my last post:



What is everyone else doing around the country and in Cal? I see lots of GN flatbeds out there and I am fairly confident that not all or most of the people towing them have a full commercial drivers license?



BTW, I did look the law up here in Cal and it is there to find if you know where to look in the vehicle code. If there were enough people interested I could probably cut and past and make another post showing that.



Thanks all who reply, this is an interesting subject.

 

[Silver600]

Well if they (CHP) want to get that technical about it go look at the registration on your truck, all 3/4 and 1 ton trucks say "Commercial vehicle" on the registration in CA. Like I said I planned on getting a class A when I get my dually because I will be at a GCWR of 26,200 with the flatbed but I was hoping the non-commercial I need for the RV would work since the flatbed is only for personal use. So technically if I take my truck and 25 foot trailer for a class A commercial drive test all I need is an airbrake cert and I can drive a semi with a 53 foot trailer. I see a big safety issue with that.

 

[PatrickCampbell]

CTDCAL, Check out the BigTex I sent you. It weighs under 3000 empty. Also, is this for commercial or private use? I didn't think that pick ups even go through the scales in California... ?



So as long as it is RATED @ or under 10,000 lbs you should be OK... ? For example the GP12 is a 12,000 lbs GVW trailer... but you can have it downrated to 10,000 lbs. Doesn't mean you can't put more than 7000 lbs on it if it weighs 3000 lbs. It is still a 12,000 lbs trailer. Even still, as a 10,000 lbs trailer, you can put 9,000 lbs on the trailer itself, assuming 25% of that weight is going to go on your truck, then under 10,000 lbs is on the trailer axles, and 25% of the entire trailer weight is transferred to your truck.



But... I don't really know how California "works"... I do not have a CDL and I pull ... or at least will pull (still getting up and running at the moment) a 48 foot car hauler where my GCWR is 26000 lbs.

 

[Gaylord]

CTDCAL, you have a good handle on CA trailer laws and how they are enforced here. I tow a large boat (12,600#) and have had a Class A CDL for years. I have never been stopped towing the boat. You can get a Restricted Class A, for non-commercial purposes only. It does not require a bi-annual medical, but a medical questionnaire.

I think that Patrick has the right idea, though I've never looked into down-rating a trailer. HTH

 

[NIsaacs]

Trucking laws are very complex with local, state and federal enforcement. In AZ. any trailer larger than 10,000 lbs gvw, must have the gvw portion of the registration listed and paid for on the truck. If you have a 12,000 lb gvw truck and want to pull, haul a 12,000 lb gvw trailer, you must license the truck for 24,000 lbs and the trailer for 10,001 lbs. The DOT doesn't say much if your trailer is tandem axle singles but if they are tandem duallys they will stop you even empty and check you registration.





"NICK"

 

[GWBourne]

hmm, i find this all odd. my dodge is registered as a commercial truck. i have no business and dont use it to haul anything. BUT since its a one ton diesel thats how it got registered. dont know if it can be done another way or not. i have pulled MANY times from oregon to san diego and from San diego to Yuma AZ with ZERO problems. i have a 32 foot tri axle GN. i weigh in at over 26k so i HOPE i NEVER get pulled over to weigh in. i would be paying a few cash-itos if i do get dinged. i have more police drive by and give me the thumbs up for the truck on the back of the trailer than anything else.



WHY? you ask... because i keep a GREAT following distance, dont exceede the trailer speed limits set, use my signals and am polite with other road manners. hmm, dont give them a reason to pull you over and you wont have to get weighed. its like seat belts in AZ, you are required to wear them, but they cant pull over for JUST that. or atleast i am hoping anyway... .

Grant

 

[CTDCAL]

Silver600, what kinda RV are you pulling that needs a restricted class A? There is a difference between the commercial license we pay on a pickup and what the DMV and CHP consider a commercial vehicle. I was told the difference was all pickups, unless they have a camper shell, have to be registered with commercial plates, that does not mean it is going to be used for commercial purposes or that they are even a commercial vehicle, its all about the weight fees to pay for the roads. The GN over 10k#'s, or any trailer other than a horse trailer, RV or stock trailer, is considered a commercial vehicle and therefore subject to all commercial vehicle laws and drivers licenses because it is capable of being used for commercial purposes. Not my words, just what I was told by the CHP Commercial Officers I have talked to.



GWbourne, as of now you don't have to go into the scales when pulling a trailer with a pickup in Cal and I was not concerned about being weighed as I would keep my weights legal. The CHP commercial officer around here is just pulling you over to check the GVWR sticker if he believes the trailer over 10k#'s GVWR for the trailer only, don't know if they would buy the weight distribution on the truck with a GN. If you are empty and the GVWR is 10k#'s or less, then fine, if he thinks you are over he may put you on the portable scales and that would be a big time ticket if things didn't jive. One of the ways that I was told they establish cause to pull you over is by looking at the wheels and seeing alot of lugnuts, then they know it at least has the weight capability. Three axles would also be a sign.



I too drive very cautiously towing and have racked up some miles in the last few years without much problem, I just want to find a way to have a gooseneck for the ease of towing, within its weight parameters, without having to fork over the dollars and time for a commercial license as I am just moving small tractors from one of my places to another or up the state to oregon where we also own a duckclub.



Patrick, thanks for the info on the BigTex, I will look into it, it certainly seems like an option, although last time I checked, they were pretty expensive.

 

[CTDCAL]

Gaylord, I was just re-reading the posts and I already checked into the restricted class A for non-commercial purposes, however it won't work for a flatbed or cargo trailer over 10k#'s as no matter how you shake it they consider it a commercial vehicle no matter what your intended use or actual use is. It seems a little fuzzy on what a restricted non-commercial use class A would do for you, unless it applies to really heavy RV's, I have not researched it that far. Even my friends towing a 5er and a boat at the same time have to have full Class A licenses, not sure why, but I got 4 friends we RV with and they all have them just for that purpose as they are not commercial truck drivers for a living.

 

[Silver600]

CTDCAL, my HR Next Level is a 38 foot with a GVWR of 17,000 (trailer only). The laws for the RV's are pretty specific.



under 10,000 GVWR - class C

10K - 15K - need an RV endorsment on class C

over 15K - non-commercial class A



I just don't get why I can't use the non-commercial class A for a flatbed (personal use only) but it is ok for my RV which is longer, heavier and taller.

 

[CTDCAL]

I did not know that about the RV endorsement over 10k, oops, my 5er is I think about 10750. Guess I need to do some more reading. Hard to keep track and find all this stuff!!!!! I was told the reason you can't use the non-com lic for the flatbed is because it COULD be used for commercial use, I guess it would be pretty hard to say that about an RV, especially yours, that aint and RV that is a darn HOUSE!!!! What's the pin weight on that thing? Hope that new truck comes in soon for you!!!

 

[Silver600]

Actually our trailer is a toy hauler so it could easily be used commercially by a race team. I didn't weigh the truck alone but the combo was overloading my rear axle by 1000 pounds. I estimated the pin weight around 4000 but I only had our two Yamaha 450's in the back (about 750 pounds total). If I had more (or bigger) toys in the back it will lighten the pin since most toy haulers are front heavy when empty. Thats my argument for putting a sandrail in the back (not working so far).

 

[CTDCAL]

Silver, Yeah, sometimes them toys are hard to get past the BOSS!!!!