Hunting Wabbit

[Steve Roseman]

I couldn't help it, had to use the Elmer Fudd saying.

Anyway, I picked up a 80 VW Rabbit Diesel (90cid) for my 13 year old. We are going to get a lot of quality time together on this car, it needs plenty of work. It runs like crap right now, like the injectors are bleeding off. I was going to take the injectors apart and clean them, but if that doesn't help I was going to price new ones. Does anyone know of any aftermarket vendors for the little Rabbit non-tdi diesel?

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Moe]

wabbit

I've got a 1983 diesel rabbit with 4 speed. It's a lot of fun to drive and very dependable. Try calling 1-248-373-2300 and ask for a catalog. The company is called Parts Place Inc. They have anything you could need. Have fun.

 

[Motorhead]

Steve, you can buy just the replacement nozzles for the Bosch injectors and replace them yourself. Replace ALL of the cloth braided fuel hoses. They get porous and will let the prime bleed back and make it hard to start. I owned and worked on a few diesel Rabbits and owned a Diesel Dasher wagon for 19 years.

I also have a very good source here in Ca. German Parts and Restoration, 1-800-321-5432 ext 506. The guys name is JIM and he has worked on german stuff for years. Tell him that you know Chris. . He will take care of you.

E-mail me if you need some advice or help. Try to find a "FACTORY" shop manual only. They have all the info. I had bought the special tools to set up the pump timing and valve adjust tools.

Chris

 

[Steve Roseman]

Thanks Moe and Chris!

I will make some phone calls and see what I come up with. This is supposed to be a low budget project so I'm trying to save money without cutting corners .

The bleed-off seems to happen while it's running, like the injectors aren't reaching their intended pop off pressure. I do plan on replacing the cloth braided hoses. Only 82k on it but it's been sitting for 4 years. The previous owner said it would occasionally overheat. He spent a lot of money on the cooling system but never checked the injectors.

I keep reminding my son it will never be like my truck , but it will still be fun and get excellent mileage.

 

[Shovelhead]

In reference to the "Overheating", early "Wabbits" were notorious for blowing head gaskets.

You might want to find someone with a VW factory-type compression gauge to double check.

A "normal" one won't work as you will be dealing with 600+ psi of cylinder pressure, and it take a special adapter to fit into the injector holes.

If necessary, changing the gasket is not that hard of a job.

 

[Motorhead]

Steve, The compression on the rabbit diesel is 468psi for a healthy engine. As Shovelhead said, they can blow head gaskets if overheated and overheating can be a sign of a blown head gasket. As soon as you put "Diesel" into the quotient, more money follows as we Cummins owners know. The down side is that you should have the special tools needed to set the cam timing, pump timing(dial indicator and holder for the pump), the Pizer guage to set the timing belt tension, and the valve shim assortment and tool to change them. You might go to some older VW shops and they might sell the tools to work on these as they are getting few and far between. I might suggest that before you get too wrapped up in the car, that you have a shop or someone that has worked on the things to give you their opinion as to the overall health of the engine.

I am assuming that you have not worked on these engines before, BUT assuming that you are good at mechanicals.

The 1. 5ltr did have "Run-away " problems in that if the rings were worn they built up enough blow-by that they would run on their own engine oil and could only be stopped by putting on the brakes to slow it down. They actually had alot of power when this happened,more than running on diesel alone and LOTS OF SMOKE!!! If you clutched it, it would over-rev and float the valves and grenade. The 80 Dasher that I had did that to me(ran-away) a few times. I modified the crankcase breather and it stopped. The 1. 5 had too small of a breather passage thru the cyl head that caused the problem. I later put a 1. 6D in it and it ran great.

Chris

 

[RBrunson]

84 wabbit

I have a 84 5speed non-turbo and so far been having really good luck with it. 157,000mi. Is there anything on this year and model that I should watch out for? I have about 47,000mi on the timing belt, and change the oil every 3000mi. Temps have never been high on it either.

 

[Uncle Joe]

try a cheepo electric fuel pump between the pump & the tank

the prime pump is built into the rorary pump... let it seat for years and it wont push anymore cousing fuel starvetion,i put plenty of those on back in the day... ... ..... joe

 

[Steve Roseman]

Thanks guys, Lots of knowledge in here.

If the head gasket is blown, it's not blown to a water passage. I did a leakdown test on the cooling system and it's fine. The previous owner spoke of occasional overheating, not frequent.

I might try the pusher pump idea, couldn't hurt. I will also pull the injectors, clean them and have them tested.

The cam, crank, and pump timing are intact. I pulled the cover and checked them before ever cranking them over, with the interference head I didn't want to take any chances.

 

[Texas Diesel]

Originally posted by Uncle Joe

try a cheepo electric fuel pump between the pump & the tank

egads!!!!!!!! Should he use a Cummins lift pump???



Check the little rubber coolant hose behind the injection pump, I had two rupture and send my beloved wabbits to the grave. Once they over heat they are never the same again, happened twice to me. Guess a new head and gasket would have fixed them

 

[Motorhead]

Rbrunson, You should be fine... they run and run. Yours I believe has hydraulic lifters and shouldn't need periodic adjustments. The saving grace with yours is the 5 speed. The 4 speeds keep the engine wound pretty good on the freeway. The problem that I had on both engines in mine were the oil control rings. They would start using oil but ran very good and started good in the morning. I installed an Audi Diesel ratio-ed 5 speed in my Dasher and it would cruise 75mph all day long.

As long as your '84 is not using great amounts of oil, you're in pretty good shape. Keep the timing belt changed at 60k.

The VE inj pump on the VW's didn't have any bushings in the pump case. With the timing belt pulling on the one side of the pump, the housing will wear and the pump will leak from the front seal or the belt won't track right and start to eat up one of the sides of the timing belt. The pumps are not too expensive to overhaul. When I had mine done in my Dasher, they had a process to bore the housing, bush it and re surface the pump shaft to fit. This made them last longer. The VE pump is the same design as was used in first series Dodges and is fuel lubricated and cooled only. The VW diesel is the only successful engine that I know of that was a gas conversion by design. Chris

 

[Shovelhead]

Quote:

The VW diesel is the only successful engine that I know of that was a gas conversion by design. Chris



With a cast iron block, and an aluminum head.



The other trouble we saw frequently was valve guide seals disintegrating, especially on the first couple of years.



Keep the oil changed, change the timing belt when called for (23:1 compression, valve are very close to the pistons), and it should give you many years of service.



I think I might still have the dial indicator holder, and the "J" hook and an assortment of shims for the valve adjustments.

 

[Texas Diesel]

Originally posted by Motorhead

The VW diesel is the only successful engine that I know of that was a gas conversion by design. Chris

One other possibility, I read in a book that the engine used in the Rabbit was designed from the beginning as a Diesel with the gasoline version being marketed to the US. They (VW) put 2 million test miles in Africa and the Artic as well. It was one of the most thoroughly tested engines ever put into production. It was quite a long history on the design. Cant remember the name but I found ut in a library in the Automotive History section.



The only weak point mine had was the aluminum head warping if overheated.

 

[Motorhead]

I may be wrong on the "Chicken or the Egg" theory as to which came first. The Dasher came out in '73 or '74 with the water cooled inline 4 gas. None the less, for its size, it is a good engine. I think that they have them as small as 1ltr Diesels in Europe. Chris

 

[LarryB]

The non TDI (indirect injection) VW turbodiesel is still available in an 1. 9L industrial version new in a crate. They have many applications. Gen sets, farm implements, pumps. A brand new 1. 9L turbo runs just under $4K, makes just under 100hp and just over 100ft/lb. An intercooler from an Audi 5000 can be modified to fit and the pump can be turned up to make about 125hp. For a 2000lb car this is like having 450+hp in a Ram.



You can do a pretty thorough rebuild on an older one for under $1000 and get 200k more miles out of it. I use to think the old VW bug was economical until I discovered the Rabbit diesel.



I have a 80 Rabbit PU, 1. 5/5sp. It is my daily commuter and the favorite vehicle I have ever owned. I did have the engine run away a few times before putting in rings and a valve job. Like Motorhead said they have lots of power and smoke when running away. I now get mid 40s mileage and it will do 70 all day long except the big hills. I also have a VW 1. 6L non turbo engine in my Samurai.



Just something about rattly, smokey diesels. Even small ones.

 

[Motorhead]

LarryB, There is a breather modification for the 1. 5D VW that prevents them from runaways. I built my own by co-joining the valve cover breather with a crankcase vent also. You get the plate with a hose nipple on it that fits where the fuel pump would go if it was a gasser. You tie a hose from it into the vent hose that goes from the valve cover to the intake manafold. This cuts down the blow-by velocity thru the cyl head passage on the 1. 5.

The 1. 6D had a bigger passage thru the head from the block and didn't have that problem. Chris

 

[LarryB]

Thanks Chris, I'll keep that in mind if I have a problam as the miles mount up. Since I put rings in it's been fine. I have the plastic windage tray under the valve cover now too. When it starts to use oil in the future I may have to build that setup though. In fact I think I have that setup off a 1. 6 around here somewhere.

Larry

 

[cwienenga]

80 vw diesel

owned 80 p. u. rebuilt it once,many head gaskets, ran away at 70,000,short block due to wear in cyl's. vw came out with new breather hose with "Y" in it to cure problem,never happened again. yours is mechanical lifters,(hyd in 84). piston to cyl. tolerance in very tight, . 001-new. if the rings are worn you will find that idling,the engine starts smoking grey/blue but will clear out if reved up. the woven hoses on injectror return normally will leak fuel when bad, good to replace along with rubber cap on last injector, (they split and leak). they are fairly simple to work on. when the injector pump is worn it will be hard starting as it cannot pull the fuel at cranking speed to pressurize system.

I took timing belt covers off and discarded,that way you can always monitor belt conditon and see if it is walking, (happened to me once and was shaving off on cover. also watch the water bleed return in exp. tank, (little hose coming back from radiator), if head gasket is blown into water passage, it will burb and spit through tube.

I have an 83 quantum tdi now and o-hauled it, but much more complex due to additional stuff on engine.



good luck

cliff

 

[LarryB]

Man! Talk about a timely conversation. Dang! It's always something. On my way home Friday driving my Rabbit, after a long 70mph downhill stretch I let off the throttle and WHOAAaa!!! Away she went. The old wheezer took off on "runaway" mode. Smoke everywhere! I got it stopped, cleaned out the airbox, left the breather hose off and drove home. I then replaced the aircleaner, did the hose mod and have my fingers crossed. Hopefully it will last a while longer. Although I do have a 1. 6 ready to go in if needed.



Thanks you guys for pointing out the hose problem/fix.



Larry

 

[Motorhead]

LarryB, Make sure that if the engine runs away again, don't clutch it or it will rev to destruction. It will NOT govern top engine speed as it is running on engine oil and not regulated fuel from the inj pump. I just put on the brakes hard and the reduced engine speed put the "Runaway Devil" down. Put that breather mod on if you have one or e-mail me and I will tell you how to make your own. Chris