Is it Safe to Overload

[SnoKing]

The only difference is a 500 lbs spring rating. So yes, it is safe to drive the 2500 loaded beyond a 10,000 lbs GVWR.

So you will represent the OP in court if he has an issue that puts him/her there? I think not! SNOKING

 

[RVTRKN]

Look at these numbers, one with my 04.5 2500 with the truck at correct weight for traveling, 5ver at dry weight as in Grey, Black & Fresh, with just enough water for toilet use on the road. And the 3500 with the 5ver fully loaded with all tanks full, which is actually not the weight you would travel with. Your Fresh tank should be the only tank full at the start of the trip, but it is possible to end up with all three full so thats how I weighed it. Both are legal and are under the axle weights, as well as the GVWR per axle rating. I ignore the GCWR per Dodge, its meaningless unless your under warranty. So it is possible to pull said Toyhauler, IF IT IS UNDER THE AXLE RATINGS. Some will argue you can increase the tire ratings to go over the posted Axle rating, but these weights I'm posting are with OEM tires. Yes it will be limited, but it is possible to legally pull that Toyhauler.

 

[spoon059]

So you will represent the OP in court if did has an issue that puts him/her there? I think not! SNOKING

And what, pray tell, is the OP going to be in court for?

If he registers his vehicle for the correct weight and his tire ratings are sufficient for his loaded weight, he cannot be charged with a traffic offense for driving an overloaded vehicle. Please provide a traffic citation in any state that doesn't allow a motor vehicle to be registered for a weight over the manufacturers posted GVWR, but under the tire and axle ratings. I can tell you with 100% certainty that no such law exists in Maryland, where my vehicle is registered, and by which the standard of my vehicle is held due to state reciprocity agreements...

Anyone can sue anyone else for any reason at any time for a civil offense... that doesn't mean that they will win the lawsuit nor does it mean that the person sued did anything wrong. If you think you are immune to a lawsuit simply because you have a heavier truck, you are sorely mistaken.

Just out of curiosity, have you ever heard of a successful civil lawsuit where the ONLY basis for the verdict was that an operator was over his gross vehicle weight rating, but under his combined tire and axle ratings? Not a lawsuit where a vehicle was improperly loaded, or driven in a negligent manner, or failed to secure a load, or driven in excess of the speed limit, etc... but solely over the GVWR and under tire and axle ratings. Please, if you can find such a civil lawsuit that was successful, I would love to see it. Again... I'm sure there have been lawsuits to that effect because anyone can sue for anything, but I would love to see one where a competent judge ruled in favor of the plaintiff.

I anxiously await any proof that a successful traffic charge or civil lawsuit could be brought...

 

[Killgore]

5erDriver asked a question and I think he has seen an excellent discussion concerning the answer. Fact is, I would put this discussion up at the top of the list for drilling down to a decision involving GCWR, etc. etc.

If he continues to pursue his desire to purchase this camper, what is the next step? Pull it around and test the handling, and how comfortable he feels behind the wheel? Perhaps not the best way to make a decision, but I wouldn't buy it without trying it. (Fact is, I wouldn't try to wrestle this added weight under these circumstances but that is an individual decision based on my own personal experiences.) Manufacturer's warranties, legalities, and common sense aside, what are the driver's capabilities, experience level, age, and the condition of the tow vehicle?

In my own situation, even though I am within the envelope but pulling heavy, I have spent several dollars to tip the odds in my favor; exhaust brake, SBC clutch, TST-TPMS, Hawk brake pads, Michelin tires, gauges on the transmission and differential, Trans-Cool, driving lights, etc. and finally a substantial grill guard for those items I am unable to steer around. I also recognize my own limitations by getting plenty of rest before hitting the road and keeping the night driving to a minimum since having eye surgery I get a hallo effect off bright lights. Yes, and I pray for a safe trip to my Lord, both coming and going. Am I extreme? I am an older driver who loves to be on the road, but someone who has had his share of blow-outs, white-knuckle experiences and was a driver for years of an 18-wheeler.

- Ed

 

[HWTG]

"Oh it's a diesel, it will pull anything"

I have heard this stupid remark so many times! The real question is will the truck "handle" the load??? As in being hit with a big cross gust on a down hill run coming into a corner.

The exact reason I switched from a 2500 GMC to my Ram dually.

I was pulling my 40' 16,000 lb toy hauler a few years ago down to the Black Hills. Everything was going fine with no problems, until we cam through a storm front. In an instant, I encountered a 50 MPH side wind gust that shoved me over into the oncoming lane. For a few seconds I thought I was going to lose everything.

I was right at my max limit with that truck. Although it had all the power in the world to get it moving, the rest of the truck was insufficient for the job.

Towing the same trailer with my dually is now a relaxed trip, even the wind gusts don't concern me.

 

[Killgore]

HWTG, thank you!

 

[spoon059]

Manufacturer's warranties, legalities, and common sense aside, what are the driver's capabilities, experience level, age, and the condition of the tow vehicle?

- Ed

Ed, once again you have fantastic points. These issues are more important than arbitrary differences between a 3/4 and 1 ton truck. Most important is being safe and smart. I believe that it can be done by staying under your axle ratings, even if that involves exceeding your manufacturers warranty card GVWR.

Everyone stay safe and enjoy your trucks and trailering experience!

 

[SnoKing]

OK, lets all ignore the fact the RAM has take the 2500 and 3500 SRW truck in two different directions. Back up a minute to my old 2001.5 2500 with camper and trailer options, and LT265/75R16E tires. It was built as a SRW 3500 with 2500 labels.

Then came the 3rd gens and early 4th gens with the only difference being the rear spring and this difference varied around leaf count and thickness with things changing from time to time. At one point late in the game the 2500 had a higher leaf count, with thinner leafs.

Along came the latest change to rear coils or rear air on the 2500. Its air system is different than the 3500 air system. If RAM felt that is was just as capable as the 3500 rear suspension why did they limit the rear axle to 6500 vs the 7000 on the 3500. Note: tire options are the same.

So RAM drew a line between the two that is wider than it has ever been and people want to ignore it! That is why we purchased a 3500 SRW and why anyone that is going to tow a 5th wheel of mid to larger size should do the same.

SNOKING

 

[5erDriver]

Wow, this has been a very interesting discussion. Thanks to all who took the time to reply, and thanks for the good information.

 

[SnoKing]

Wow, this has been a very interesting discussion. Thanks to all who took the time to reply, and thanks for the good information.

In re-read the thread, if your 2011 has 17" wheels and tires, that is a VERY BIG limiting issue. 17" tires have become the dog of the sizes with low weight limits. You will need to go to new rims and tires 18, 20 or 19.5 to handle the pin weight on the rear axle.

 

[Brocky]

I have to agree with Ed Kilgore.. Hook it up and drive it a while.. DO YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE??????? I had a F-250 and was pulling my 5000 pound Diamond T pickup on an 16 foot flatbed utility. No Problems!! Bought a 32 foot gooseneck hitch enclosed car trailer. After a couple of 1500-2000 mile trips, even with added Firestone air bag helpers, the F-250 DID NOT feel comfortable. Swapped to a 3500 DRW and the driving stress factor was gone!!! Now I can enjoy my trips to truck shows. The other main reason for the swap was to go from the 6.0 Power Destruct to the 6.7 inline 6 Cummins.

 

[NIsaacs]

Sometimes it in not always about the weight, but what does the load look like? If it looks light, no one will bother you and it will even feel light. If it looks heavy you will think it is and be intimidated.

Here is a pic of my '01, GVW is 8800, GCW per Ram is 20K,. Hint...I am over Rams limit, but will any Internet Weight Police pull me over, if not why, if yes, why?

Nick

 

[Brocky]

The Diesel cops would stop you for 2 things. First not enough straps on notoriously slippery blocks, you ever notice that the big trucks have boards or wire mesh down the whole side of the pallet before they strap it down? Second with only single tires on the trailer you are probably over on your axle weights?

 

[TCDiesel]

Couple of things... in 2011 the only difference between the 2500 and 3500 was the suspension. 2013 was the only year with major structural differences between the 2500 and 3500. 2014 was back to both vehicles possessing the same frame, axles, engine, transmission, wheels, tires, brakes, bearings, etc. The only difference is coil vs leaf... but the coils are rated to 6500 lbs and the leaf are rated to 7000 lbs... hardly explains a 2,500 lbs difference between vehicles.

Your friends insurance was denied because he was over his TIRE RATING... not an arbitrary sticker placed by the manufacturer for warranty ratings. 4000 lbs over tire rating is insane! Seeing as to how most E rated tires are rated for around 3200 lbs at full pressure, that is a combined 12,800 lbs tire rating. Your friend was at 16,000 lbs in a 3/4 ton truck, in other words he had almost 9000 lbs of cargo??? I almost don't believe it, but I guess anything is possible.


Just to wrap your head around legality... my last truck as a Tundra with a 7200 lbs GVWR. In Maryland you can register to 7000 lbs or 10,000 lbs. If I registered to 7000 lbs, I would have lost 200 lbs of payload capacity. I didn't want that. Instead I registered for 10,000 lbs, with LEGALLY gave me another 2800 lbs of payload. I had E rated tires that allowed a maximum of around 12,800 lbs. If I loaded my half ton truck up to 10K lbs, I would have been perfectly LEGAL to carry 10K lbs. A cop couldn't cite me... insurance couldn't deny me... but Toyota could have easily denied the warranty work when I blew up my rear axle and the frame bent in half.

You see... that placard is for WARRANTY work, it has NOTHING to do with legality or safety. It is a compromise between marketing, legal, accounting and engineering. What is the highest rating we can give, with the least worry about catastrophic failure, that will provide the lowest number of warranty claims and is structurally sound. There is a reason that Ford was able to increase their tow ratings and payload ratings in the late 2000's without any major modifications to their vehicles. GM and Toyota had higher ratings, so marketing was able to push for higher numbers that were accepted by legal, accounting and engineering.

Ram rated the axles on the 2500 series trucks to carry a far greater weight than just 10K lbs. It is cheaper to use the 3500 parts and de-rate them on paper to meet the Class 2b rating that it would be to engineer a weaker component that was only capable of the 10K lbs rating.

I am not advocating for buying the wrong tool to get the job done... but the OP already has a 2500, so it doesn't make sense to buy a new truck just to take away the arbitrary 10K lbs rating. The truck is mechanically identical, with the exception of slightly softer rear suspension.

No your WRONG the 2013 2500 only received the New DEF and engine , it had ALL the same DL, Frame, suspension, Axles ,TC. form 2003-2013 , the 2013 3500 Received ALL the new Changes, 2013 2500 carryover years control arms and front axle design, it was 2014 3 link suspension lots of miss info on this even the truck mags followed the pattern, go fine a 2500 2013 and look for yourself.

 

[spoon059]

No your WRONG the 2013 2500 only received the New DEF and engine , it had ALL the same DL, Frame, suspension, Axles ,TC. form 2003-2013 , the 2013 3500 Received ALL the new Changes, 2013 2500 carryover years control arms and front axle design, it was 2014 3 link suspension lots of miss info on this even the truck mags followed the pattern, go fine a 2500 2013 and look for yourself.

I think you either mis-read what I wrote or misunderstood it. I'm quite sure that I'm not WRONG. Ironically enough, if I'm wrong, so are you because we both wrote the exact same thing... Here is a snippet of my post that you quoted...

Couple of things... in 2011 the only difference between the 2500 and 3500 was the suspension. 2013 was the only year with major structural differences between the 2500 and 3500. 2014 was back to both vehicles possessing the same frame, axles, engine, transmission, wheels, tires, brakes, bearings, etc. The only difference is coil vs leaf... but the coils are rated to 6500 lbs and the leaf are rated to 7000 lbs... hardly explains a 2,500 lbs difference between vehicles.

As you can see, I stated that in the 2011 model year... same exact everything except spring pack.
In 2013 the redesigned the 3500 series with a new frame, but the 2013 2500 kept the old frame.
In 2014, both the 2500 and 3500 shared the new frame, and the only difference was a coil spring on the 2500 rated to 6500 lbs and leaf springs on the 3500 rated to 7000 lbs. Now, once we start talking about the air bag suspension, I don't know enough about them to argue the differences between the 2500 and 3500.

That isn't mis-information, we both wrote the same exact thing.

 

[TCDiesel]

Yep... I see your point. yes both correct.

 

[NIsaacs]

The Diesel cops would stop you for 2 things. First not enough straps on notoriously slippery blocks, you ever notice that the big trucks have boards or wire mesh down the whole side of the pallet before they strap it down? Second with only single tires on the trailer you are probably over on your axle weights?

Cinder block are slippery? I had mine shrink wrapped on the top 2/3's, they didn't move at all. The plant uses a flexible restraint devise they fold over the top corner and covers about a 1/3 of the side and top, the rear is open and they don't use wrap.

The trailer axles are 8K with 17.5 16 ply tires, so no they are not over weight.

Nick

 

[Newsa]

Sometimes those 3 car carriers have a full load and a a vehicle up over the bed. when they take corners too fast, the car car up over the truck bed tries to keep going in a straight line.

 

[RVTRKN]

The point of my earlier post, is staying within the posted GAWR is all you need to worry about, and the 2500 Drive (rear) Axle Weight with the pin weight of that 5ver, that the OP posted about, may very well fall within the posted rear axle weight allowed. But he must check first before purchasing it, or he's taking a chance it will overload it beyond what's safe. After all, isn't that the ultimate question he's asking?

 

[SnoKing]

The point of my earlier post, is staying within the posted GAWR is all you need to worry about, and the 2500 Drive (rear) Axle Weight with the pin weight of that 5ver, that the OP posted about, may very well fall within the posted rear axle weight allowed. But he must check first before purchasing it, or he's taking a chance it will overload it beyond what's safe. After all, isn't that the ultimate question he's asking?

Again, I will repeat. If it has 17" wheels and tires, then it will have a really low 6000 RGAWR, which does not go well with 5th wheels. So one has to factor is the cost of a wheel and time upgrade to 18, 20 or 19.5" tires and wheels. SNOKING