Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Lift pump failure=trip from Hell

[johnrv4]

We took our TT out for the first trip yesterday. My nephew got married on Saturday, and we decided to go there with the TT and spend the night at a local campground. I have a mechanical fuel pressure gauge installed on my truck, and the pressure has always been at 14psi at idle, and no lower than 10 psi under load. Well, after going through the south suburbs of Chicago on I-55, the fuel pressure went from about 11 psi to 0 psi in about two seconds. The truck immediately lost all power, and I maneuvered my way to the emergency lane. The truck would barely idle (on about 4 cylinders) and was pumping some white smoke out the back. I made it to the first exit ramp and got into a gas station parking lot. I checked the voltage to the pump, which was fine. Luckily, I had fellow TDR member Fireman Dave's phone number with me. I gave him a call, and he found me a local Cummins dealer 6 miles away. THANKS DAVE!!!! I got a ride there, and got a replacement pump. Truck fired right up and was back at 14 psi again at idle. I planned on installing a pusher pump set up on the truck, but I haven't decided which one I want to use yet. I guess I'd better decide soon . The lift pump that was on the truck that failed had 38K miles on it. I've found several dead lift pumps on other's trucks that gave no indication of low power after they failed. This wasn't the case here. The pump failed and the truck puked immediately. I would recommend that anyone that does a lot of traveling have a back up pump in their tool box, or a pusher pump installed.

The trip didn't get any better either. After I was up and running, I was heading down the interstate trying not to be late for the wedding. Well, just as I was alongside a semi, he must have kicked up a rock that shattered the passenger side window and scared the crap out of my wife and dog. Luckily, I had the windows tinted, and the tinting film held all the pieces in place. That created another problem. With the sun on that side of the truck, the mirror was useless. Made it to the wedding JUST in time, and then I decided to take the trailer to the campground before the reception. When I got there, the office was closed. They left instructions on which spot to park in. Let's just say that this was definitely not a KOA . The spot was about 3 feet shorter than the trailer, and when I pulled through it, I had to put the truck in 4wd to get the trailer out of the spot. I think they must have put that spot on a natural spring. Ended up with a bunch of mud on the front of the trailer and me heading out of there at record speed. I ended up parking the whole rig at the reception, and driving home after midnight. I just wanted to say thanks again to Fireman Dave for the long distance search. . Another thing I have to do is sign up as a travel companion. I was thinking about the Travel Companion list that was at home while I was sitting in the gas station parking lot



Sorry for the long post, but I just had to vent.

 

[Sregorb]

Sorry to hear about the "adventure". If Fireman is on the TDR Companion, recommend him for the new companion badge. It's good to give kudo's where/when due!



Brian

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

HMMmmm - I should sign up in the TDR Companion section as well - we're at a main intersection of Hwy 505 and 80 between SF and Sacramento, and have a full hookup RV spot, and I have a decent shop with lots of tools and welding eqpt... Plus, I keep a spare LP and Carter pusher in the truck's toolbox...

 

[dieselshu]

Damm John, That really sucks, Thank the Lord no one was hurt when the window got hit. I just change a lift pump on a guys truck yesterday, he said he and the dealer both had a helluva a time trying to prime the fuel filter bowl about 6 weeks ago, hmmm wonder why. I put the guage on the filter and zero, swapped out the pump with my spare and bled the air and bump, bang boom... its running, the truck has 101k on it and looks as if this was the orginal pump. Glad your home safely. Way to go Fireman Dave, you rock! It must be the name:-laf





Dave Shuart

 

[jtisdale]

Too bad about your trip John. I hope the marriage lasts longer than your new lp.

Are you going to make it to Wausau next weekend?

 

[Ajwalls]

Wow, as some of you may know, I went through an adventure just this past Easter, but I can't get close to yours, mine went out at 48,500, but I made it to my campground while my fuel pressure guage was reading "0" for about 20 miles.



I have inquired of the Cummins people, and asked as to why this lift pump has such a failure rate. Their reply was that the failure rate is not as great as we think, and not to believe everything we seen in TDR. (They have not yet responed to my question on the lift pump failure rate. )



Is there any way we can get a survey or question going through TDR as to how many and at what milage these pumps have failed? Anyone has any ideas?

 

[mediccummin]

I believe we have done that, do a search and you should come up with the LP survey. A number of us have also written letters to DC without much help. There is a list floating around of the letters as well. Later. I'm on my third, with only 45k. I just moved mine down by the tank and aced out the banjo's.



Sorry to hear about your run through the gauntlet, hope every thing is better now. Later.

 

[johnrv4]

I'm just glad this all happened when it did, and not in the middle of a toll booth in Chicago on the way to Muncie. Funny thing is I have been watching lift pumps on Ebay, and have one on my watch list for the last couple of days. I took the top of the failed pump apart for a look. The vanes look fine, and can be rotated along with the armature. It appears that there's an open circuit in the motor itself. Infinite resistance across the + and - terminals. I'm kinda glad the window got it and not the door. Easier to change a window than do some bodywork. I think this truck must be cursed or something. Had a windshield take a rock and crack when the truck had 2K miles on it. The replacement had a defect in the glass right in front of your face. It was like driving with the wrong eyeglass prescription. They replaced it again, and on the very next trip, it took a rock and had to get a rock chip repair.

On a more positive note, I had about three people offer their help when I was sitting at the gas station. Hopefully I can return the favor to somebody some day.

 

[rweis]

I would imagine you carry a spare LP now?, interesting story though. Safety is paramount and I am really glad no one got hurt.



I chimed in here because I am trying something different that MAY help reduce lp failures. I Stanadyne PF every tank, put a RACOR 690 filter pre lp, put the lp on the frame, lots of dielectric grease on the lp plug, put a MALLORY 4307m after the lp to keep the checkvalve closed (set at 12 psi), and monitor post lp and post filter fuel pressures for filter clogging.



I read a ton of threads on lp failures just like everyone else. The failures seem to be generally electrical connections at the lp, lp check valve not functioning correctly, lp motor failure. Not much you can do with a motor failure except try to have as light a load on the motor at all times as possible.



MY concept is clean ALL the water out of the fuel, filter the fuel, and lubricate the fuel to make the input to the fuel system as nearly perfect as possible before it ever gets to the lp. Then mount the lp where it does not have to suck. Then make it as easy as possible on the lp to run as long as it can. That's the MALLORY 4307M bypass filter set at 12psi. Keep the lp checkvalve CLOSED. Eliminate that problem. Bypass the lp at 12psi so the pump does not have to fight a higher head pressure (up to 16 psi) and can comfortably run with out as much strain. And carry a spare if the motor quits. Not much you can do about a motor failure except change it.



Only have 32k so far so not much of a test yet. I should know more in another 100k or so.



Oh, I put a manual fuel shutoff before the RACOR 690 so if I have to park it for any lenght of time and I need to secure it from starting, or I need to work on the system and need to shut off the main tank.



Bob Weis

 

[johnrv4]

Sounds like you have a good set up Bob.

It sounds like you have good set up there Bob. I've read all the posts using different pumps, and yours looks like a good idea. I SHOULD have been carrying a spare a long time ago, but I was thinking about changing the whole system like you did. Actually, I was thinking about putting a P7100 on it. I like the way my '97 and my old '98 12V runs. But, I do travel with this truck all over the country, and I don't want to put on something unique and have something break that's not readily available. I guess that's another reason why I'm on the fence about a FASS or Preporator system. With my luck, the pump motor would take a crap while I'm in the middle of nowhere trying to find a replacement. For now, I guess it'll just be a spare lift pump in the toolbox(like there should have been a long time ago) and a relocation to the frame rail.

On a more positive note, the window gets replaced on Wednesday and tinted on Thursday.

 

[Fireman Dave]

Hey John - glad you made it home ok. It was my pleasure to be able to help you out - especially after all of the help you've given me over the years. I'm glad I was home and not out doing fire inspections as I had planned - procrastination does pay off some times.



Dave

 

[johnrv4]

Well, the truck is back to normal today. . Got the window replaced yesterday, and the tinting installed today... . Hopefully I'm done with broken windows in this truck for a while

 

[jwilliams3]

John,

I would advise that you carry a spare.

Also I would get some higher flow banjo's.

It seems these modified banjos reduce back pressure and keep the lift pump alive longer.



--Justin

 

[johnrv4]

I'm definitely getting a spare. Maybe two I already have Ray's banjo bolts. I'm heading up to Wausau tomorrow for the dyno day there. I'll be living dangerously with no spare pump for this trip.

 

[IWeiny]

How do you get on the companion list?

I have room on the street for rigs if someone needed help. Also have a pretty decent set up for minor repairs.



Ira

 

[rweis]

I did the AN-6 fuel line thing and you totally get rid of the banjos for full flow fittings.



Just a thought.



Bob Weis