Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Motor shutting off on its own

[BigBadDodge]

Sled Pulling this past weekend full head of steam going down the track and then all of the sudden the motor just shuts off but then starts right up, hooked two more times and the same thing happened. I was furious as its the last pull of the season here on the West Coast. Anyway any ideas ? I am going to start with the shut off selinoid but what would make it shut right in the middle of a pull ? also going to change the two relays on the fire wall.



Anybody exsperience this before ?



BBD

 

[Bandit1]

i have had it happen to me on 3 dif occations, first was about 2 years ago, i had just installed some electronic goodies and must have overloaded a wire bc it burnt through at the point of resistance which was the main hot wire (large red) in the steering column. easy fix. but the truck would shut off in mid stream going down the road (2 times) the other time was just a few weeks ago it shut off on me when i was flying down some back roads. i went home and cleaned the fuel canister and it had some gunk in it, so i think i must have had a bad load of fuel. good luck

 

[JFaughn]

I do not know if you know but the shutoff has to relays, 1 to pull on the other to hold on , so it could be a bad hold relay or its source of power , get a wiring diagram and tape a lite to the dash to watch the power side , then the source , it could be that the vibration bounces the contacts open.

 

[Joe G.]

I do not know if you know but the shutoff has to relays, 1 to pull on the other to hold on , so it could be a bad hold relay or its source of power , get a wiring diagram and tape a lite to the dash to watch the power side , then the source , it could be that the vibration bounces the contacts open.

There is ONE relay for the fuel solenoid. It is used for the pull on coil in the solenoid. The hold coil is connected directly to the ignition start/run circuit. Could be a bad ignition switch. No contacts at all in the hold circuit. This circuit is on page 8W-30-45 in my '95 service manual. Pin 3 of the fuel shut down solenoid is connected to spice S132. See page 8W-70-13 for all the circuits that are on this splice. It is the ignition start/run circuit.

 

[JGheen]

I do not know if you know but the shutoff has to relays, 1 to pull on the other to hold on , so it could be a bad hold relay or its source of power , get a wiring diagram and tape a lite to the dash to watch the power side , then the source , it could be that the vibration bounces the contacts open.

I believe the other relay that your refering to is the fuel heater relay. The solenoid and fuel heater relay are on the same bracket next to each other on the top of the drivers side firewall.



Joe

 

[JFaughn]

This must be the differance in yr. md. , I had a intermitant no start problum [ would turn over but no start- dealer put in a new fuel solenoid ] I looked at a wiring diagram[ provided by an other member] and they had writen in pull & hold in that circut , 1 relay each, I removed the pull relay mounted just below the hood , took it apart and filled the points- 1 was burnt- and the symptom is gone. My heater relays are on the fender and look like the old ford - sorry- starter relay.

 

[JoshPeters]

BBD, Sorry to hear about that. I JUST found I had a power/starting problem myself. Last week I noticed that the truck wasn't pulling as hard... I thought I blew something up again... . not like that would be anything new... . But The next day it wouldn't start. I had to pop the hood and lift the solonoid up. It held on it's own, no big deal, fired up and drove away. Well after 2 days of that I said heck with it. I pulled the solonoid out and I'm using a Choke cable for a carb. I'm still trying to "tune" it, due to the spring tension holding Down on the linkage, but it's pretty minor. I'm just trying to decided if I want to use a spring return so it defaults in the "on" position or if I want to Pull to shut it off. Right now I have a small spring in there and that works pretty well but I need a longer "pull. " (On position is pulled towards the driver, off is pushed in against spring tension on the button but With the spring tension at the injection pump)



I have "found" probably 35% of my power! (egts at WOT run to 70 1250, now 1600)



Josh

PS, I'll try and get some pictures in the next couple days... . it only took me an hour to hook up and "tune" so that it would give me WOT Rack and Shut-down with my springs.

 

[BigBadDodge]

Excellent Josh yeah post some pictures if you don't mind when ya get a chance.



we are certain its the selinoid, with the compression and the advanced timming I have had to crank the crap out of it sometimes to get it to start as I had nobody around to squirt the ether. so I think it took a toll on the contacts but hey if I get more power too that's a bonus



Thanks all,



BBD

 

[EBottema]

BBD and Josh-



There was a TDR article in last couple issues about a guy who bought a nice knob and stainless steel braided cable to act as a manual shutoff switch. If mine ever goes bad, that will be the route i go. I always love taking off gnarley assemblies and replace them with a cable, my hand and my brain (lol)

 

[EBottema]

BBD- After reading the post again, i would def go with the mechanical cable over the solinoid. It is either on or off. No contacts to wear... no bs to worry about

 

[JoshPeters]

My Version of the Shutdown cable

Here are my pics guys. The only difference between the pics and actual... . I have a larger spring at the knob in the cab. I needed more "hold up" while it was running to get full travel.

 

[BigBadDodge]

Josh nice pic's, thanks for posting them. I am certainly going to go to the cable set up.



BBD

 

[JoshPeters]

Hey no problem. Sorry it took so long. I got busy. If you have any questions let me know. It's pretty easy to do. You can see in the pics I just pulled the solonoid out and left the bracket. I used the solonoid bracket to hold the other bracket out of the choke cable kit. The only problem I had was finding the right combination of springs to hold the cable in the "run" position. That took a couple of tries. That being said. I'd recommend starting out with the cable to long and get it to where you like it before you trim it down to length. I had to get a second cable because I modified it to far and couldn't make it work.



ALSO... . It's a metal cable..... Careful about stuff near the battery! I arc'ed mine once by accident!



Josh

 

[Andy Redmond]

All second gen 12v's (94-98) use the firewall mounted relay(s). The smaller relay is for the fuel heater circuit on 94-some 96/97trucks. The larger 70 amp being for the shut down solenoid (pull coil circuit of the solenoid). Then the heater relay got moved inside of the PDC beside the ds battery in the later models 96ish thru 98. That's why you will see some trucks with nothing plugged into the relay nearest the fuel filter on these trucks.



Joe G has this one drilled. . two coils in the shutdown solenoid a pull and hold coil. The hold coil could fail, allowing the solenoid to drop or a loss of voltage would do the same thing (like when you turn the key off).



I 've found that in excess of 80% of the time the relay or fusible link or other worn wiring and also starter solenoid contacts are the cause for shut down solenoid complaints/problems. Josh describes the classic symptoms relay going out (worn and burned contacts), although the pull coil could be bad.

I've seen a couple of smoked solenoids (pull coil) from a stuck starter with bad contacts that the drive didn't retract when the ign switch key was released.



Cable or solenoid, I'll choose the solenoid. I recently changed the relay on my 10 year old ram and the solenoid boot once. So they are pretty reliable and no cable hassle.



If you are pulling you could wire or ziptie the solenoid up if you are concerned that it is dropping. You would need an alternate way to shut the truck down though. . perhaps you are a candidate for a cable after-all! :-laf



Good luck

Andy

 

[HFreeman]

To BigBadDodge

NEVER EVER use ether on a diesel !!!!!!!!

 

[JoshPeters]

NEVER EVER use ether on a diesel !!!!!!!!

HFreeman..... Never drop the compression on a Diesel so low that in Sub 70degree temperatures... . it takes a LONG crank time to start it.





Sorry man, but do some research. For 90% of the Board Ether is Very bad. For some of the competition pullers that are throwing down 70psi PLUS of boost... . they MUST drop the compression ratio. Starting those engines can be VERY difficult even WITH ether



Josh

 

[BigBadDodge]

Why ? please exsplain ?



As I know most of us with advanced timing, Schieds, Haisley, Sledpuller and alot of others all do with no problems.



BBD

 

[BigBadDodge]

Sorry Josh, ya beat to the punch



BBD

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

Ether is fine in a diesel, just don't do it with the grid heaters on!

 

[JoshPeters]

Sorry Josh, ya beat to the punch



BBD

Hey no problem!



I guess my point was more of..... You said Right in your post you were sled pulling. A person might at that point notice the ammount of sponsors you have in your signature. Ether just MAY be needed.



Sorry if it seems we are picking on you HFreeman. We don't mean to. If you go to IRP next year I'll buy ya a beer!



Josh