Need to figure this out now

[MarkEkberg]

My father just gave me his 5th wheel camper which is in FL and of course I am in NH. My 03 with 240K miles has been hard starting cold for some time now, but it does not get driven much in the winter so I have been putting off what I assume to be injectors. They are original to truck.

I think I am going to have to give it to someone to diagnose. Hoping to find someone who spends some time actually diagnosing v/s throwing parts because I am not convinced it is injectors yet.

I've been here off and on for a while fiddling with this problem for two years now. I figure before I drive 1500 miles to haul a 16K 5th wheel back 1500 miles I need to get this solved.

It is hard start cold. Started around 0, but over the last two years its up to 50 degrees or so.
Once started it will fire normal with a little longer crank time. Every once in a while it will not fire warm.
Once warm if nose of truck is high it will not start. If pointed down it fires normal. Just noticed this a few days ago when I was pulling snowmobiles.

I am starting to think this might be a fuel pump issue with the nose up and down?

I assume I am looking at injectors..... Seems lots changes in short amounts of time. Who is the go to guy currently? I don't need increased HP. I want to keep my MPG and have plenty of power. Smarty gives me plenty to haul my 20K backhoe twice a year.


Thanks in advance. Have 6 weeks to solve this as I am headed south end of April to grab camper.

 

[Bob4x4]

If you still have the oem lift pump,you are due for an upgrade.They aren’t real good when new.I prefer the oem retrofit kit that moves the lift pump into the tank.This has proven to be very reliable and plenty of fuel flow a moderate power levels.If you can monitor rail pressure while you are cranking it will be a good indicator of what you may be dealing with.
If after testing you find the injectors at fault I would highly recommend going with thr BBI .5 injectors.They are very clean running,will not hurt fuel mileage and allow you to turn down your Smarty or run without it depending on your power level desired.

 

[MarkEkberg]

Lift pump was moved into tank with about 75k on the clock so it's had about 165k on it. This is why I am wondering about fuel. Will have fuel pressure tested first.

Will take a look at injectors. Always scary plopping down that kind of money.

 

[p-Bar]

I second the BBI's .5's that't what I'm buying when the time comes

 

[Slow Six]

The experience I had with my 03 says you are over due for injectors and cross over tubes. Don't go to a dealer as they are to proud of their injectors. A good diesel shop should be better. I know it kind of bites but I had to do injectors twice on my 03.

 

[Tuesdak]

The nose up/down trick indicates an air leak letting fuel drain back to the tank. Air leaks may not leak fuel, but, it doesn't hurt to look. I would track this before injectors. How old is the fuel filter? Can you watch rail pressure on your Smarty while cranking?

After doing the Stage 1 BBi's IMO they are well worth it. Sure the misfire I had is gone, but, the engine is quieter than it ever was. My 2003 still likes to do a random long crank while hot and then belch black smoke.

 

[cerberusiam]

At 220k you probably got the goody out of the OE injectors, it would be a good bet they are starting to get to the point where they are bypassing too much fuel. You can spend the $$ to have them tested in the truck but it will likely tell you what you already know. Stock Bosch OE style injectors, production run Bosch Marine injectors, or BBI .5's. The BBI's with have MUCH more QC done to them with balance and flow characteristics across the pressure range a lot tighter than a production run injector. You will pay for it, probably $1200-1500 more, but it is an investment in quality.

 

[Bob4x4]

You can look at the bbi price as a bargain when you compare them to the dealer pricing

 

[MarkEkberg]

The nose up/down trick indicates an air leak letting fuel drain back to the tank. Air leaks may not leak fuel, but, it doesn't hurt to look. I would track this before injectors. How old is the fuel filter? Can you watch rail pressure on your Smarty while cranking?


I don't how to do this? I bought the full smarty. Will have to play around with it and see...... Fuel rail pressure was checked on it a couple years ago when problem started. Cranking pressure was over 5k on a warm engine, but then at idle it was all over the place. Used a snap on scanner. I replaced the sensor on the front of the engine as a guess cause it was cheap. Nothing changed. Have not changed the sensor on the fuel rail. Figured I might just do that when I do injectors.

I read about BBI Injectors last night. Sounds good, but I was a little miffed about a 3K repair if I let someone else do it. Those are 3600 by themselves!!!! Yikes.

Assuming I do not pony up for BBI, who is the next best place?

 

[TConver]

If not BBIs then new Bosch Injectors from a reputable dealer.

 

[cerberusiam]

Injectors Direct, Diesel Auto Power, Pensacola Diesel, just a few places that sell both OE and the marine versions. You have to make sure you specify NEW production run injectors then check numbers when you get them to be sure.

 

[Tuesdak]

The nose up/down trick indicates an air leak letting fuel drain back to the tank. Air leaks may not leak fuel, but, it doesn't hurt to look. I would track this before injectors. How old is the fuel filter? Can you watch rail pressure on your Smarty while cranking?


I don't how to do this? I bought the full smarty. Will have to play around with it and see...... Fuel rail pressure was checked on it a couple years ago when problem started. Cranking pressure was over 5k on a warm engine, but then at idle it was all over the place. Used a snap on scanner. I replaced the sensor on the front of the engine as a guess cause it was cheap. Nothing changed. Have not changed the sensor on the fuel rail. Figured I might just do that when I do injectors.

I read about BBI Injectors last night. Sounds good, but I was a little miffed about a 3K repair if I let someone else do it. Those are 3600 by themselves!!!! Yikes.

Assuming I do not pony up for BBI, who is the next best place?

I assume you replaced the FCA, fuel control actuator, on the CP3? Some good diag tips here, link. Checking for air leaks would be a visual for any fuel leaks on the fuel system.

Far as I can tell only the Smarty Touch will display rail pressure. Testing injectors is money spent to make sure you found the problem. Testing doesn't indicate they have 5 miles left in them as I found out when my tested during rebuild injectors didn't even make another 20K miles before failing.

Injectors Direct, Diesel Auto Power, Pensacola Diesel, just a few places that sell both OE and the marine versions. You have to make sure you specify NEW production run injectors then check numbers when you get them to be sure.

Pensacola Diesel sells garbage (especially for older IDI's) and their recent Google Reviews are pretty clear about the garbage they sell.

BBi sells remans for $600 less than New. Don't forget you can sell your leftover "cores" if you buy new BBi's. Yeah, "New" is a fraudulently used marketing term Bosh and others are guilty of using for "used bodies" with new innards. This is the #1 reason I went with BBi's is to cut through that BS of verifying part numbers from someone else where "New" somehow means "rebuilt" with "used" part(s).

 

[cerberusiam]

Pensacola Diesel sells garbage (especially for older IDI's) and their recent Google Reviews are pretty clear about the garbage they sell.

They will sell you a set of NEW Bosch OE style injectors if you request them. If you cheap out and request remans, that is not new. They have had issues in the past (maybe still do), just like every other reman business in the US, of rebuilding injectors correctly. Some of that is due to Bosch not playing fair in the field or remans and requiring a huge investment to get the parts and the knowledge. NEW is NEW, reman is another story.

Yeah, "New" is a fraudulently used marketing term Bosh and others are guilty of using for "used bodies" with new innards.

Incorrect. Bosch is very meticulous about identifying injectors as reman or new, always have been. The supply chain has not been so good about differentiating the difference between NEW and reman. If you know what to look for EVERY single Bosch packaged injector will tell you new or reman. What happens between the Bosch facilities and into your hands is another story entirely, VALIDATE you got what you bought or it is on you.


Just a not on air leaks, they don't exist where they can be seen on 3rd gen truck with an in-tank pump. Any lack of fuel flow to the CP-3 is either a pump malfunction or a problem in the tank canister. Nose up or down and affecting starting, I would be pulling the canister to look for a bad connection or the basket plugged with asphaltenes. If there was a leak anywhere else it would spew diesel on the ground not suck air.

 

[S.Morris]

Will BB i .5 injectors Pads emission snap test in stock 03 truck?

 

[Tuesdak]

I was referring to "Gen-New" Bosch marketing term for rebuilt as explained here and other places. Am I mistaken? With the marketing hype it's been rough to sort out. https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/252318-Identification-of-Real-New-Bosch-injectors

 

[cerberusiam]

That thread is 3 years old and the instances of remans being substituted is almost 10 years in the past. All the new injectors for the last 4 or 5 years have been easy to identify by looking on the solenoid top for 238 stamped there. That is the last revision of the 5.9 CR injector and all you see anymore, if it doesn't have the number there it is a reman as Bosch will stamp the reman # on the injector and those are easy to see. Injectors with no number on the solenoid are likely a reman as Bosch is the only source for those stamped parts. There is another 5 06 digit number that denotes build date and location, that you have to know how to decipher as it is secret squirrel code. A lot of the ones I have seen in the last couple years are coming out of the Charleston SC plant.

The gen-new was a high level reman than the standard done you get from most resellers, they basically cherry picked the best ones of the cores and replaced everything new where a standard reman has broader tolerances. They may have even quit that now as the new production has ramped up so much and the 5.9 is now 1 years out of production. Basically you get NEW now look for the 238 stamped don the solenoid and that is a production run injector, definitely not the quality of the BBI but as good as you will get from Bosch.

 

[MarkEkberg]

Thanks for all this information. It has answered most of my questions. Truck goes in for diagnostic on Monday. May have more than one issue with the whole nose up/down thing.

Assuming Tuesday I will be ordering from someone. Lot of money spent on something you can't see or polish

 

[p-Bar]

Mark if you have 245k on the clock you did well, a lot of guys have replaced around 100k or so.

 

[Tuesdak]

That thread is 3 years old and the instances of remans being substituted is almost 10 years in the past. All the new injectors for the last 4 or 5 years have been easy to identify by looking on the solenoid top for 238 stamped there. ...

It's really time for an updated "HPCR Injector buyer's guide from the TDR." It would save a bunch of heartburn for people attempting to sort through the past. I don't regret my decision, but, it's the most expensive single repair being second only to an engine rebuild.

 

[RWalker]

How good is the fuel you use?