2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission upgrade from auto lock hubs to manual

[pwerwagn]

Those were true "auto-locking hubs" and were very similar to the ones found on the 81-84ish dodge trucks... they tended to be problematic as sometimes they would not unlock, sometimes they would not lock, and othertimes they would just grenade for no apparent reason... I had a lot of friends who thought these were "the" way to go...

Hey steve, have you ever seen a set of the older Warns that were both auto as well as manual lock hubs? They are similar to those found on the newer fords.

I was working on a blazer the other day and was pulling the hubs and noticed the "auto" spot on the dial. I had never seen that before. I pulled out my old warn brochures, and sure enough, they offered a manual/auto version back in the 80's. the brochure only showed the standard hubs, but this guy's were the warn premium (brass dial and all. . ).





--Jeff

 

[steved]

Hey steve, have you ever seen a set of the older Warns that were both auto as well as manual lock hubs? They are similar to those found on the newer fords.

I was working on a blazer the other day and was pulling the hubs and noticed the "auto" spot on the dial. I had never seen that before. I pulled out my old warn brochures, and sure enough, they offered a manual/auto version back in the 80's. the brochure only showed the standard hubs, but this guy's were the warn premium (brass dial and all. . ).





--Jeff

Yeah, I have seen them before... Those warn hubs were not common... but I have seen them... saw a set installed on an older (early 80s) Bronco once. It was like free-auto-full lock (dial position) wasn't it? And the full lock was quite a distance around the dial from the other two positions...



steved

 

[ACoffel]

GM has not made a 1/2 or 3/4 ton TRUCK since 1987 and a 1 ton since 1991.

The crap they use for a front axle does not meet the qualification of a TRUCK.

As steved has already pointed out , Dodge has not used auto locking hubs since 1993 IIRC . While the auto locking hubs were problematic and inferior

to their manual locking cousins ,they were a far cry better than the CAD or

" no disconnect " of the 2g and 3g trucks. It sounds to me like the 02 would

be the most desirable front axle of recent years when converted to the larger

shafts and manual locking hubs because it is a Dana 60 with no CAD. The only

weak link would then be the ball joints.

 

[pwerwagn]

It was like free-auto-full lock (dial position) wasn't it? And the full lock was quite a distance around the dial from the other two positions...

Yup, those are the ones. He told me he has never put them in lock, he always leaves them in auto. They were on a 44 (non hd), 8lug. He was running 36" tsl's, said he has never had a prob with the hubs. Shafts and u-joints are another story. .

converted to the larger

shafts and manual locking hubs because it is a Dana 60 with no CAD

yup, just that the 35spline upgrade setup and all is pretty steep $$ wise. Does the 02 axle with no cad still have the cast collar on the housing, or is it just tube?? My grandpa and uncle both have 02's and they both have CAD... and it works becuase they have the 2wd low mod.



--Jeff

 

[steved]

Yup, those are the ones. He told me he has never put them in lock, he always leaves them in auto. They were on a 44 (non hd), 8lug. He was running 36" tsl's, said he has never had a prob with the hubs. Shafts and u-joints are another story. .







yup, just that the 35spline upgrade setup and all is pretty steep $$ wise. Does the 02 axle with no cad still have the cast collar on the housing, or is it just tube?? My grandpa and uncle both have 02's and they both have CAD... and it works becuase they have the 2wd low mod.



--Jeff

FYI, an eight lug D44 is an "D44HD"...



The CADless axles don't have the three piece housing... they are simply tubes like the old (pre-94) styles... the inner axleshafts are not that big (definately not anywhere close to 35-splines)... so if you were to attempt to get the strength of the older D60s, you'd need to change both the inner and outers to 35-spline (assuming you were running the DT kit already)... the 35-spline stubs the DT kit came with dwarf the inners of my 3rd gen...



And dodge offered the ture "automatic lockouts" (with manual hubs as an option) until 1984... in 1985 they intro'd the CAD with the option of manual locking hubs in the D44... the D60s were manual locking and kingpin until 1993, when dodge decided to install the CAD and balljoints on the D60 as well.



steved

 

[JHansen]

Like Steve said, there is no cast piece-just a nice smooth tube. I belly-crawled under a pair of them last night to get a BOM # for further research with Dana.



From what I can find digging around the web between Pirate 4x4 and Pavement Sucks, the '00 up redesign uses 1. 41" 32 spline inner axles and either 1. 37" or 1. 41" 33 spline outers. I have yet to verify this on my own truck-I will when I do my ball joints but that may be a while down the road. Not sure how the outers compare-the inners are quite a bit more substantial than the '99 down (1. 31" 30 spline) but not as beefy as the true front 60's (1. 5" 35 spline).



Also between here and various other sites it appears there are at least 3 outfits making the hub kits now-Dynatrac, Right Gear and EMS Offroad. The last 2 appear to still be working on the '00 up kits. Hopefully this set of days off I will be able to contact both via email for an update on when they think they will have their setup ready and how it will compare pricewise to Dynatrac's.



HTH

Jason

 

[pwerwagn]

From what I can find digging around the web between Pirate 4x4 and Pavement Sucks, the '00 up redesign uses 1. 41" 32 spline inner axles and either 1. 37" or 1. 41" 33 spline outers. I have yet to verify this on my own truck-I will when I do my ball joints but that may be a while down the road. Not sure how the outers compare-the inners are quite a bit more substantial than the '99 down (1. 31" 30 spline) but not as beefy as the true front 60's (1. 5" 35 spline).

Also between here and various other sites it appears there are at least 3 outfits making the hub kits now-Dynatrac, Right Gear and EMS Offroad. The last 2 appear to still be working on the '00 up kits

what is the difference between the 94-99 and the 00-02 axles?? Just curious. Ive tried to contact ems off road (via emal) and never got a response. I hope one of these new companies will be better priced than dynatrac, Cause Id like to use this ford 60 for something else...

FYI, an eight lug D44 is an "D44HD"...

According to my spicer manual, an 8-lug axle comes in HD and non HD. I have a 44 that actually has HD stamped into the housing. It has thicker tubing, as well as external mount hubs (not internal). The wheel bearings are also a diff part #.

I also have another 8-lug 44 (both of them are chevy axles. . in a dodge). It does not say HD inside the housing like the other one, the tubes are thinner, and it has internal mount hubs.

The difference in weight between the 2 was 13lbs, IIRC.

 

[JHansen]

Caveat-I am not the be-all/end-all/know-all about these diffs-just pieceing together what I have read here and other places out of sheer necessity... .



When they redesigned the front axle in 2000 to fit the dual-piston calipers it seems they changed pretty much everything from the knuckles out. Nothing from the cast C's out will interchange AFAIK-the ball joint location was changed, the wheel bearings are different, etc. etc... . although the steering linkage will interchange (ie. the vaunted inverted T steering setup from the '98-99 HDs) as will the actual CAD unit (at least a Posi-Lok setup is the same between '94-'01). I didn't know about the spline count change until I got digging through here and other places. Somewhere along the line-it may have been at the redesign-the pinion design was changed from preload set by shims to the dreaded crush sleeve... . -I need to do some more research to find out when that occurred.



EMS may not even talk to me-if they are the same EMS Offroad that sells through eBay (which I assume they are) they flat out refuse to ship to Canada-the only way for me to purchase anything through them via eBay is for them to ship to a US address-which is kinda limiting seeing as I don't have one! I am going to do more research-I may fax both if I can't scare up a response via email-or just break down and phone them. The break point for me is ABS-if either one of their kits will not retain the front ABS I am not interested.



HTH

Jason

 

[SPrusak]

I often wondered this, the steering hooked up with no issues too?? I know everything else is a simple bolt-on, just always wondered about the steering linkages...



While I have often considered doing this conversion on my dad's junk, the 01/02s (or was it 00?) "flipped" the ball joints, so you can't use this junkyard method to get hubs unfortunately...



steved

we did 1 ton chevy TRE's and 1. 5" DOM tobing for the steering. Simply reamed the steering arms for the TRE's

 

[steved]

According to my spicer manual, an 8-lug axle comes in HD and non HD. I have a 44 that actually has HD stamped into the housing. It has thicker tubing, as well as external mount hubs (not internal). The wheel bearings are also a diff part #.

I also have another 8-lug 44 (both of them are chevy axles. . in a dodge). It does not say HD inside the housing like the other one, the tubes are thinner, and it has internal mount hubs.

The difference in weight between the 2 was 13lbs, IIRC.

They have not used the thicker 1/2" axle tubes since 1974... I know, I have owned several 74s, a 79, and a 88. All of them after 1974 were 3/8" tubes... this includes a couple GM D44HDs I robbed parts from (flat top knuckles), after the 74 time frame, they all went to 3/8" tubes...



All eight lug D44s are considered D44HDs in the common man's world. Any parts house will list a 5 lug as a "D44" and an 8 lug as a "D44HD".



And don't always trust Spicer's stuff as I have found quite a few discrepencies in them... for instance, the D70F in the one 74 I owned, Spicer claimed to have true ujoints based on the BOM... it was a tracta joint version... the D60F I had for a project (out of a 92 W250) was listed as a D30 in the spicer manual based on the BOM...



steved

 

[pwerwagn]

All eight lug D44s are considered D44HDs in the common man's world. Any parts house will list a 5 lug as a "D44" and an 8 lug as a "D44HD".

Its kinda funny how different parts of the country refer to stuff differently that others. Around here, everyone calls the 44's with external hubs HD's and anything with internal hubs not.

Probably just some stupid lingo started by someone way back when... and it stuck.