Where do you keep your pistol in truck? Any under seat holsters?

[curatchko]

To the LE Officer,



You have very valid points. Couldn't argue them if I wanted to. Unfortunately, this is the price of a free society. We either want to respect that freedom, and do what we can to weed out the nut cases from the system involving weapons, or we can just scrap the whole deal and 'forsake' our freedom of self reliance.



Either way, it will not be a perfect system. Society will never be utopian, and our gun rights are no exception. There will always be folks who should not carry or own fire arms, who are in fact carrying, owning, and using them illegaly... . even in the event that guns were banned. Only law abiding, mentally stable citizens follow laws... . important point.



Lets face it, you as an LE officer are well aware that your job is NOT to protect, but to enforce. It is not your job to protect me from criminals, nor could you outside the legal judicial system of red tape. The day your job description is to 'protect' is the day I'm afraid this nation is all done in terms of freedom...



Furthermore, on a personal level, I am NRA Pistol trained and certified, as should everyone be who is granted a CPL or CCW. Should that be the limit? Probably not... . I would not be entirely against an INDEPENDANT PERSONAL psych test that was not sponsored by the gov't or connected to the CCW/CPL in any way or form...



Either way... kudos to you and thank you for your public service.



Chris

 

[Mtngoat]

Chris..

Thanks, Chris, I guess I should have also said that I am against any legislation that would take firearms out of the hands of citizens. It is our right and we should protect that right.



Robin

 

[Pit Bull]

Re: guns, guns, guns...

Originally posted by Mtngoat



to be honest, not pointing fingers at anyone here, just a statement, there are people that are not mentally capable of the tremendous responsibility of having a weapon on them.

Got to agree with that, but you have to include the fact that there are a lot of people who are not mentally and emotionally capable of raising children and this activity is more dangerous to society than any CCW Should be training testing and a certificate for both activities. If you don't have a certificate you go to jail. :-laf

 

[Mtngoat]

Yep

Gotta agree with you 100%, PitBull! I work part time for an organization that does nothing but provide a safe environment for separated parents to trade off their kids for visitations. I always shake my head at some of these people that are "mature" enough to have children, but can't get along for 5 minutes while they trade kids. A lot of the kids are more mature than their parents! Its a rough world and it going to get worse, I'm afraid. Oh, well, we live in a lawsuit world. .



Robin

 

[CFAR]

I would not be entirely against an INDEPENDANT PERSONAL psych test that was not sponsored by the gov't or connected to the CCW/CPL in any way or form...

curatchko

I couldn't agreed with you more, well until the above sentence. You kind of destroyed the whole premise of your first 3 paragraphs. A free society is just that, FREE. We have to live with both the good and the bad. Otherwise down we go the slippery slope of compromise. 20,000 gun laws on the books as it is. A law here a law there, before you know it its 2003.



My quote,

We should outlaw the personal ownership of firearms, look at it this way, it worked for drugs!



disclaimer: The above quote is intended as sarcasm not flames.

Just one more piece of advance too, if you carry a firearm, make sure it is CONCEALED.

Personnally I would never advise someone to break the law, whether I agree with the law or not. As curatchko states, and I will reiterate, we live in a free society and as such we have certain responsibilities. If we CHOOSE to break the law, we should accept the consequences our actions. And one of those consequences just might be, you lose the right to own any firearm because you have a felony conviction for illegal firearms possesion. Just a thought. Remember its a free country, do what you feel you must.

JCyrbok, stuff like that is the REASON ALOT of people do not like police!

First let me say that I have a lot of respect for the police, they do a job most of us couldn't or wouldn't. I would never last as a PO, I don't think I could put up with the %^&$#$. I'm always polite when stopped and I don't attribute the bad manners of one PO to all. My parents had a CHP officer move in next to them, nicest guy in the world, he is now moving away, hate to see him go I don't think I've ever had a better neighbor. As far as the quote above, you came off as someone who has an attitude. I'm not saying you do, but it kinda sounded like it. I'm not trying to flame you, not being a police officer I only have an outside view into your world, and I do understand its a dilfficult line of work.



I think basically we are all in agreement.



I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! (Patrick Henry, March 23, 1775)

 

[curatchko]

You know, I have to say that every place I've ever worked, congregated, and every public place on the net I've ever hung out at and discussed issues like this, I have rarely ever seen someone against Guns and Freedom in general.



But for some reason, while they may be a very small group, the gun grabbers and anti american freedom folks get LOTS of publicity... yet they don't, from my point of view, represent the majority views of this nation ONE BIT.....



The major media is the only explanation I can think of... and these days the Liberal media is crying about not getting enough press... .

 

[CFAR]

I believe its called a VOCAL MINORITY and I wish it were a smaller minority.



They and the so called moderates are generally the ones calling for compromise.

 

[CFAR]

Sorry all,



I'll get off the soap box now

 

[Mtngoat]

Nope, CFAR- You called it. The silent majority has always suffered in silence.

Did I tell you all my NEW TDR sticker really looks NICE on my "new" truck??? Well, it looks awesome!! And wait till the DTT sticker goes on next week. It'll be awesomer!!!

Robin

 

[curatchko]

Compromise.....



Yeah like me only being able to cram 10 slugs in my pistol now instead of 15 because 10 won't do as much damage as 15???



Or like an assult rifle is defined by 2 or more 'evils'? C'mon... . I guess without those evils, a nut case can't go around shooting people from inside his trunk... Oh..... wait..... Further these nut case law makers can't figure out that the only people who will obey their new gun laws are the ONLY PEOPLE who WOULD NOT commit the crimes!!!!



... . okay, relax... .

 

[Adam]

Curatchko

There's a few different ways you can look at the term "Serve and Protect". If I arrest Joe Dirt for driving with a Breath Alcohol Content (BrAC) of . 22%, I've removed him from the roadway for a certain period of time (varying by state) and thus indirectly protected you from his increased probability of injuring you or yours. The same principle can be applied to any basic crime. Works for all of 'em, even down to the little old lady who doesn't cancel her turn signal. Maybe she forgot, but that doesn't make you feel any better when you assume she's turning and pull out in front of her. I'll be the first to admit that most traffic enforcement is revenue generating. Can a commercial driver operate his personal CTD at 80mph on a 4-lane freeway at 3am? I would think he is better qualified than most, based upon the sense of awareness and sheer number of miles driven, but he'll still get a ticket because Joe Dirt can't drive his '83 Omni safely at the same speed. Hence the need for regulation. If we didn't have idiots, we wouldn't have regulations. If we didn't have regulations, we wouldn't have lawyers. Using basic math rules we can translate... Idiots result in Lawyers... and the added inconvenience to you and me. But I digress... weren't we talking about holsters in the truck?



-Adam

 

[Pit Bull]

You guys are all a sharp bunch, I enjoy reading your posts on this thread. Why don't one of you run for President. I'll vote for you.

 

[TURBOs4LIFE]

JCyrbok, the info on the "laws" on ccw is great to know! NO problem there at all. But what I do have a problem with is what "YOU" would do in your statements!









If I see a weapon ( and I dont care if you are an off duty cop, because unless u tell me i dont know) you will have a Glock 23 . 40SW "screwed in your ear" (figuretively)



Driving ( in michigan) and forget your license, have expired plates or similar traffic misdemenor offenses? we'll that gets the shinny bracelet routine and I search you and your car. Anything found is admissable.

 

[shendren]

GLOCK 23 . 40SW between my legs in the very nice genos seat cover pouch... ... .

 

[Sticks]

The American people are a product of their own creation. Like Adam stated;

If we didn't have idiots, we wouldn't have regulations. If we didn't have regulations, we wouldn't have lawyers. Using basic math rules we can translate... Idiots result in Lawyers... and the added inconvenience to you and me

This is why we have little yellow labels on everything, my favorite being a 5 gallon square plastic storage tote, "NO BABY STORAGE!" It was put there because some rocket scientist decided to put their baby in the tote with the lid on, baby gets injured, rocket scientist sues maker of tote because it did not say could not store babies in them, maker of tote now has to put labels to educate the public that plastic totes are not designed for baby storage, thus removing themselves from liability in the event of another law suit. Common sense dictates that you do not store babies in totes, but there you have it. In Europe, there are no yellow warning stickers, or guardrails on everything. If you fall off, you just learned not to stand too close to the edge.



Most gun laws were pushed through the respective government agencies because of the actions of one rocket scientist who lacks common sense, the end result being the elimination of the possibilities of future rocket scientists doing a free repeater.



We still have the right to keep and bear arms, but only under the following guidelines. Please refer to the next 80,000 pages for more information, and restrictions in your area.

Or like an assault rifle is defined by 2 or more 'evils'? C'mon... . I guess without those evils, a nut case can't go around shooting people from inside his trunk... Oh..... wait..... Further these nut case law makers can't figure out that the only people who will obey their new gun laws are the ONLY PEOPLE who WOULD NOT commit the crimes!!!!

This is absolutely true. Gun laws NEVER keep the guns out of the criminals hands, only the law abiding citizens. The criminals will always have them. The only way to eliminate the possibility of criminals from having guns is to eliminate the guns, WORLD WIDE no ifs ands or buts... . Aint gonna' happen. If there is a gun out there and a criminal wants it, he or she is going to get it.



I am basically a law abiding citizen with the exception of a few daily traffic violations. But if it came down to it, I will always have my firearms. If they are banned, I am going to keep them, thus I become the criminal because I will not relinquish them. Better a criminal than a victim because I refuse to be easy pickens when someone gives me the option of giving up my money, wife, etc, or turn my head into a canoe and take it anyways.



Thank you. The soap box is now open for the next speaker.



Sticks

 

[FM]

"If I see a weapon ( and I dont care if you are an off duty cop, because unless u tell me i dont know) you will have a Glock 23 . 40SW "screwed in your ear" (figuretively)



Driving ( in michigan) and forget your license, have expired plates or similar traffic misdemenor offenses? we'll that gets the shinny bracelet routine and I search you and your car. Anything found is admissable. "[/B][/QUOTE]



I understand the weapon issue, an officer's personal safety is my first concern. I understand the cuffs and search as above described if thats Michigan law. You're doing your job. However if thats the law... ... ...



... ... ... ... . my inspection lapses and I'm cuffed and searched? Sounds like infringement of the 4th.



I fully support cops, firemen, our military, etc so don't get me wrong. But just because its a law doesn't make it right or Constitutional. Likewise just because one believes a law to be wrong or unConstitutional does not nessessarily mean one is free to act counter to it or, as the case may be, not do one's job.



"The great ideals of liberty and equality are preserved against the assaults of opportunism, the expediency of the passing hour, the erosion of small encroachments, the scorn and derision of those who have no patience with general principles, by enshrining them in constitutions, and consecrating to the task of their protection a body of defenders. "

Justice J. Cardozo

 

[JCyrbok]

FM- I cant comment on expired inspection paperwork, becuase in Mich we dont have vehicle inspections like other states, is it a Misdemenor?. I fully agree with you about the 4 th ammendment. My simplified take on the way I deal with search and seizure is that if I cant do it(search and/or arrest) legally, within the confines of the 4th ammendment, it doesnt happen. I enjoy my job too much to get fired/sued over a bad search or arrest. I also dont like losing in court and one of the most common ways to lose a case is with a bad search, because u then lose all of your evidence.



Turbo- Sorry I tried to illustrate the serious nature of the topic, from my stand point and in my own way. I'm glad that you appreciated the legal info in my posts and truely hope that it helps you, as for the rest just tune it out if you choose.



Everyone be safe and smart out there. If anyone has any specific questions about CCW or methods of concealment please feel free to PM me. Enjoy the thread.



J-

 

[The patriot]

I've goten stopped here in NJ and the cop saw the big stainelss case in the back seat.

He asked "whats in there?" I told him it's my M1A match rifle.

He also couldnt miss the various pistol cases, and nylon case my AR was in (when I go to the range, I like to bring several choices in the event the range I want to go to is busy, or being worked on etc)

I got no ticket, wasnt asked to search (and I wouldnt have given permission even though I wasnt guilty of anything) and was sent on my merry way.

I never really expected this from a cop here, but guess I got lucky since I didnt have a "Glock 23 40S&W screwed to my ear".

Eric

 

[FM]

I think that a law that says that a person can be restrained and their person and property searched for the sole violation, key phrase being sole violation, of ie. an expired tag is a violation of the 4th. The law makes it legal and for some reason it will hold up in court just because its on the books. I realize that an officer's job is to uphold the law not write it and I won't pretend to know what latitude officers have here in NC let alone in MI. I guess it never ceases to amaze me what the general population is willing to give up/accept to/from their respective legislatures.



"... . assaults of opportunism, the expediency of the passing hour, the erosion of small encroachments, the scorn and derision of those who have no patience with general principles... . "



I won't even get started on the hit the 1st took with passage of "campaign finance reform"



And to think a new country was born over 2%.



Oh no, here I go again. Why is it governments/society's business where or how I keep my gun in my truck?! It only becomes their business when historically designated "bad" acts are committed (there are no new ones). They, government/society, are trying to tell me where and how I keep a gun in my house. Thats none of their concern either. (We see how well that has worked in the UK) Their sole concern should be with the acts committed with the gun and then convict the guilty not persecute the law abiding. So for the expediency of the passing hour through the erosion of small encroachments the law is passed, lets say its no guns allowed in vehicles. Now the law abiding populace does what it always has and the criminal element does the same, keeps their guns hidden only now the natural checks and balances are removed and we now have a de facto police state. For if the state removes the right by removing the ability to protect ones self then the state has taken over the responsibility, hence becoming the guarantor of all rights by removal of the one that give teeth to all the others.



Apologies for my rant

 

[curatchko]

That's not a rant, that's the truth.