Pulling the trigger.... 2018 or a 2019??

[TFucili]

Remember everyone freaking out about the DEF trucks???

I do, and I didn't really share that concern, though I did buy into Cummins' "simpler is better" BS about the ill-fated heavy EGR concept, and their gloating about meeting the 2010 standard in 2007. We all know that was a bust. But there is a distinct difference between resistance to change or fear of new complexities versus a well documented dud of a component. I simply don't believe they needed the CP4 for higher rail pressure. Look at a CP3 and a CP4 apart on a bench, and you don't have to be an engineer to see which pump is more robust. I think it is mostly about the substantial cost difference, and also their zeal to save weight. On that note, I'd be interested to know the weight of the CP4 vs CP3.

Heck, I will likely be ordering a 2019 in due time, and I have to say the CP4 is at the top of the totem pole of my concerns with the new 6.7. I've been a beta tester before...

 

[AH64ID]

I have not heard of any pump issues in recent years. 5 years and 100k to decide.

Remember everyone freaking out about the DEF trucks???

I’ve heard nothing but bad things about the CP4 since it was released.

There were DPF/turbo issues at first, most of which were fixed with programming... and DEF

 

[p-Bar]

Remember when everyone was freaking out about Ultra-low-sulfur diesel (ULSD)

 

[Ozymandias]

I'm curious, what pump is Cummins using on their other 6.7L applications? Since Cummins designs, builds, and supplies the 6.7L to Ram, who had decision on what pump to use FCA or Cummins?

And, is it possible there are different versions of the CP4 that had improvements?

There's just a whole dynamic to this discussion that would help to have more facts.

Cheers, Ron

Martin from BBi could help clear that clouds.

And sure Bosch did improving that pump, they do that to all their stuff and all the time if it is needed.

 

[Ozymandias]

I’ve heard nothing but bad things about the CP4 since it was released.

There were DPF/turbo issues at first, most of which were fixed with programming... and DEF

Nature of things, we hear the angry Owner’s - the happy Driver's are quiet.

 

[TFucili]

Nature of things, we hear the angry Owner’s - the happy Driver's are quiet.

But where are the angry CP3 owners???
Plus, the big difference is when the CP4 fails it sends debris throughout the entire fuel system, taking everything to the waste bin with it.

 

[jgillott]

But where are the angry CP3 owners???
Plus, the big difference is when the CP4 fails it sends debris throughout the entire fuel system, taking everything to the waste bin with it.

The last time we were dealing with pump issues, it was the VP-44. As annoying as those failures were, at least they didn't do any other damage when they let go.

 

[Ozymandias]

But where are the angry CP3 owners???
Plus, the big difference is when the CP4 fails it sends debris throughout the entire fuel system, taking everything to the waste bin with it.

I see the point.

 

[Ozymandias]

The last time we were dealing with pump issues, it was the VP-44. As annoying as those failures were, at least they didn't do any other damage when they let go.

Crankcases filled with Diesel to the top?

 

[jgillott]

Crankcases filled with Diesel to the top?

I never experienced that with mine. They would just shut off and never refire.

 

[Cummins12V98]

My 11 HO was never over full on oil and never fuel in oil reports running 7,500 mile changes.

 

[sag2]

But where are the angry CP3 owners???
Plus, the big difference is when the CP4 fails it sends debris throughout the entire fuel system, taking everything to the waste bin with it.

It doesn't matter what pump you have, when it fails it ruins everything else. We repaired bunches of CP3 trucks that had fuel contamination with all new parts from the in tank pump to the injectors.

 

[TFucili]

It doesn't matter what pump you have, when it fails it ruins everything else. We repaired bunches of CP3 trucks that had fuel contamination with all new parts from the in tank pump to the injectors.

Not all CP4 failures are from contamination, they just fail. I have known powerstroke and dmax owners who had it happen, and were out of warranty. So you have seen a CP3 send metal particles through the lines and rails when it fails, too? I have never read that before. That's disappointing.

 

[diesel_driver]

I just cancelled my order for a new 2019 3500 H/O. I happened on some info on the CP4.2 pump failures, and the more research I did, the worse it looked. It is a straight up piss-poor design. I'm referring specifically to the pump cam and roller lifter design. When compared to the CP3, the almost guaranteed failure of the CP4.2 is obvious. Two of these pictures show the failure point of the pump clearly:

In the first two pictures, you can clearly see how the lifter has rotated in the pump bore, and once that happens, the roller quits spinning and begins acting like a knife on the pump cam lobe. You will never know this is happening until the metal shavings have traveled throughout the fuel system, and finally plugs the pump with debris, shutting down the engine. The third pictures failure looks to have been caused by metal debris seizing the lifter in the bore, and that caused the catastrophic failure. $10K - 15K please! That's if they try to blame the failure on fuel contamination and deny the warranty. The CP3 pump cam and lifter design is near bullet proof compared to the CP4.2. When the CP3 wears out, there's no collateral damage.

As far as changes or upgrades to the newer pumps, only different coatings have been applied to the bore and lifter to lessen the wear. It sure doesn't look like those new coatings worked!

I contacted Cummins last week about the pump failures, and asked if any attempts have been made to fix this issue, specifically regarding the 2019 Rams. They responded with a one sentence email. It stated simply, "You will need to contact Dodge to see if they have any updated information on the pump."

Although I understand their response, it is funny that they defer to Chrysler. Bosch doesn't provide any info on the pumps either. Also, it does not appear that Bosch has vehicle brand specific CP4.2 pumps. A CP4.2 pump is a CP4.2 pump. No variations.

 

[RVTRKN]

I'm now a 2019 CTD HO Beta Tester, my warranty will end per time, not miles. I know the filtration system on the Ram CTD is better than before the first 6.7, which helps. So this makes my 4th Beta Testing truck (RAM and Cummins should pay me) 1st was the 94 Ram 2500 HD (HD, when there was a difference) gasser, 2nd 04.5 2500 CTD, 3rd 07 6.7 C&C and now 2019 CTD HO. with all of those trucks the only issue was the reflash in 09 on the C&C, that caused me to purchase the current 2019. It was subtle but still present in the 07 C&C. If there are issues with the CP4, you'll all be the first to hear about.

 

[Dasmoeturhead]

Man, after reading all this mumbo jumbo pump stuff, I'm going to go out and hug my 2015 barely broke in (83k) Mega DRW.

 

[RVTRKN]

My ex company bought a 2014 CTD 2500 for me (when I worked there.) that self destructed and was a total lemon law example. It happens, but hey, there were many 2019 CTD sold this weekend where I purchased mine. I would imagine that a CP4 would have failed by now in a Ram 2019, purchaed in late 18 or early 19, if it is as this thread is complaining about. Gee, I remember plastic gears in the G56 rummor before I purchased my 07 C&C G56.

 

[Newsa]

I've only owned one CTD. That is my current 2013 Tradesman.

Good points about the improved filtration. Maybe the dual filtration system was what was missing from all those cp4 equipped trucks (GM & Ford)?

I still see that the suspect design combined with higher pressures will likely cause them to overheat?????

I know many on here think fuel additives are a waste of money. But run some optilube XPD between your fingers and see how slick it is. That and stanadyne IMO are worth looking into if you go for a 2019.

I accidentally spilled ootilube XPD on the ground. And slipped like I was on ice. Coulcn't get any traction.

 

[dieselshadow]

Both Optilube and Stanadyne are top-notch fuel additives, in fact the only ones I would use in ANY of my diesels.

However, I hesitate to use either in my new '18 due to the emissions system. I couldn't in good conscience recommend them to any new owner either. I just don't know enough about any possible bad side effects.

 

[AH64ID]

I would imagine that a CP4 would have failed by now in a Ram 2019, purchaed in late 18 or early 19, if it is as this thread is complaining about.

I am pretty sure it was mid-march of 19 before any were sold. That's still 6 months of use thou.

When I picked up my '18 the 1st week of March the dealership said they had some '19s on the way but no idea when. They still hadn't seen a full spec sheet, or even brochures at that point.