Acceptable amount of sway?

[Jeepr]

Okay, I'm a newbie to RV trailers. I've been pulling my Jeep on a flatbed for years, which is about 5000lbs combined. I've done this with no load leveling hitch or sway control, and it is very stable.



Last week, I bought this:



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out in Colorado and drove back yesterday. I have a load leveling hitch with it and a sway brake. It is a 22ft toy hauler. It weighs about 4000lbs empty. I was disappointed at the amount of sway when there was a good cross wind, and I felt every car that passed me, as they would suck me in and then push me back out.



Is this just par for the course on a bumper pull of this size and height? I wonder when I put my Jeep in it, adding another 3500-4000 lbs if it will be more stable with more weight, or worse as it will have more weight to push the truck around.

 

[HBarlow]

I've pulled a lot of toyhauler trailers but they were all empty new trailers from factory to dealer. I don't know how they tow when they are heavily loaded with toys behind the axle. Some of the sway you described may be unavoidable due to design and loading.

The best product available for sway control is a Reese Dual Cam sway control hitch assembly. You can see them on the Reese website or Camping World's. The Reese dual cam has been the choice of Airstreamers for 30-40 years and is the sway control hitch on the market at an affordable price.

Your lifted truck on oversized tires with softer sidewalls will also sway more than a factory stock truck with OEM tires and wheels.

 

[Jeepr]

Yes, my pull so far was with it empty. And I KNEW someone was going to tell me about the lift and tires But, I do truly appreciate your feedback. At first it seemed troublesome, but then I got used to it, but it still makes the drive tiring when you have to constantly watch to see when you are about to be passed and hold on tight.



The hitch I have was sold to me with the trailer from the previous owner, it is from "Robin Industries".

 

[icman95]

I have a 5er toyhauler and it sways, although I suspect, not to the degree you mention, simply because it's a 5er. Remember, compared to the flatbed you are used to pulling, this thing is a barn hitched to the back of your truck. It catches the wind just like a sail. The more weight you put in the rear, the more it will sway. I would HIGHLY recommend checking the owner's manual regarding total cargo capacity. These things aren't built all that strong and I'd imagine that your Jeep in there would SEVERELY overweight it and possibly break it as well as cause more sway. The max weight capacity of my cargo area is only 1500lbs-enough to hold 2 big bikes.

 

[Grizzly]

I'll bet it gets much worse when you're passed by an 18 wheeler on a 2 lane highway.



A Sway Bar at the truck's rear axle wouldn't help because the sway is actually from the trailer. I believe a 5th wheel is the only answer as iceman95 said.

 

[HBarlow]

Wow! I overlooked the part about loading his Jeep in that little toy hauler until I read Icman's reply.

I don't think you can safely carry a Jeep in that little Toy Hauler. You'll probably destroy the frame, suspension, wheels, and tires. What's the GVWR of the trailer? How much does your Jeep weigh ready to travel?

 

[GAmes]

You own one of the least aerodynamic towables on the market. First of all it is a TT, not a 5er. Horizontal aluminum siding restricts smooth airflow over the top. Square corners restrict smooth air flow around the sides. That big garage door on the back is like a huge suction cup. I've pulled dozens of those empty and they move the back of my unlifted, stock tire size duelly around when being passed by buses, big motor homes and 18 wheelers. I wouldn't really call it sway because it doesn't keep going back and forth. One of the aforementioned large vehicles approaches from behind you. When it's bow-wave gets to the rear of the trailer it pushes the trailer and the rear of your pick-up to your right which necessitates you correcting by steering to the right. As the vehicle proceeds past you the bow wave goes away and you have to steer back to the left to keep from driving into the ditch. If the trailer stabilizes you are not experiencing sway, so that friction sway device won't improve anything. In fact, I contend that if the trailer is properly loaded and the axles are in line a sway control is a waste of money. TTS don't come from the factory with them and I have never talked to a transporter who wishes they were. I have heard that the hensley hitch that mounts near the rear axle will improve the situation because they imitate the lashup of a 5er, but they are $$$$. Once you get used to the way it tows your white knuckles will will get blood back to them. I do agree that a jeep would probably be too much weight. If you take too much weight off the hitch you WILL learn what sway is, and you won't like it one bit.

 

[jheier]

Nice looking rig, but where are you going to put a jeep?



One of our offroaders uses a 30 foot 5yer, with a 12x8 garage. He is able to get his 1951 mb in the back, but it's small and light.



I have a '08 dually with a lance truck camper, which weighs 4500lbs. so far any trailer I've put on behind that truck does not sway, from my 18 foot car trailer to my 30 foot boat trailer. I flat tow my '05 jeep rubicon, which you can't even see in the mirrors when I'm towing it, I have to look for it's shadow to see if it's still back there.

 

[Jeepr]

Great discussion everyone. And, yes, this one should handle the Jeep as far as axles and build strength. It has a 10,000 GVWR which came from a package designed to haul automobiles. The cargo area is 15' deep. This one is definately unique, as previously I had only seen 5er's or motor homes to be able to hold a Jeep. The floorplan of this one allows for not only the bed to raise up, but also the dinette to fold up to the sides, so that the Jeep (or ATV's) can pull in all the way up to the refrigerator. So, the only thing I'll find out is if that is far enough up to keep weight properly balanced. Hopefully so, since there is still a fridge, furnace, lp gas tanks, water tank, etc up in front of that.



Check out the specs at http://www.carsontrailer.com/subs/trailers/rv_sport/pull_front_kitchen/fc_pull_kitchen.html mine is the FC (front kitchen) 222 (22 feet). Mine is not the standard 7000 lb GVWR though, it is an upgraded 10,000 lb model with 5,000lb axles, 225/75/15 tires, etc.



I'll get the Jeep in there in the next few days and go for a spin and let you guys know the results.

 

[Jeepr]

BTW, here is a pic from inside last week with 2 ATV's inside end to end



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[GAmes]

I've never owned a Jeep. Are they really less than 77 inches wide? Hate to tell you this but every toyhauler I've hooked up in memory had furniture that folds up to the walls or pulled up from the floor to give access up to the side door.



I suggest that before you put the jeep in it load everything else you would take on an outing. Weigh your truck's front and rear axles without the trailer, then with the trailer as well as the trailer axles. If the WD is set up properly there will be an increase in weight on both axles of the truck, ideally the same amount. Drive the jeep in and weigh all the axles again. Whatever the jeep weighs, at least 10% of the total weight of Jeep and trailer should be on the hitch and can be identified by the added weight on the truck axles (from when it was unhitched). It is entirely possible that your trailer is so front heavy without a load that the weight on the hitch will decrease when the Jeep is loaded. That is OK as long as you meet the 10% but 12% would be better.

 

[Jeepr]

The wheel wells are 83" apart, just like my flatbed trailer, and I have a few inches to spare on each side. I had my friend drive his Jeep into this trailer in Colorado before I drove out there to buy it. His is comparable to mine, so it shouldn't be a problem. If it hits those dinette tables, I can just slide them out and put them up in front.



If I can't open the door of the Jeep, then I will just take the drivers door of the Jeep off before going in (it's off most of the time anyway).



By "had furniture that folds up to the walls or pulled up from the floor to give access up to the side door" are you referring to my comment about it having a unique floorplan that allows the Jeep (or other toys) to go further in? I can't say I looked a lot, but I don't recall others that allow 15' of room in a trailer this size and/or supported the weight of a 3500-4000lb Jeep.

 

[AABEN]

I thank if you will need to readjust your your hitch set up. Try resetting your load leveling. I thank when you get it set right you will be OK.

 

[HBarlow]

... ... ... ... ... ... . "... ... ... ... so that friction sway device won't improve anything. In fact, I contend that if the trailer is properly loaded and the axles are in line a sway control is a waste of money. TTS don't come from the factory with them and I have never talked to a transporter who wishes they were. ... ... ... .....

Gary,

A Reese Dual Cam Hitch Assembly is NOT a friction sway control device and WILL resist and dampen the side to side forces you described as well as prevent sway.

I didn't use or want to use a weight distributing hitch or a sway control device as a transporter either but you and I were pulling empty, light trailers with a dually pickup. The additional tongue weight of a trailer is a good thing on a dually. The issue of tongue weight and sway control are two distinctly different forces dealt with by separate equipment. Few transporters have owned and towed a personally owned and loaded conventional travel trailer so their experience is usually limited.

I pulled conventional travel trailers for many years (1971-2003) including with a dually Dodge for the last two years of that period. Reese dual cam hitches do produce results. Reese is the oldest manufacturer in the industry and their products are legendary among old timers who have pulled trailers since the '50s or '60s.

 

[jeomelia]

Went through the sway problem with a previous trailer when I was towing with a Ram Charger, we were shoved into the next lane of I80 before I was able to get it under control by applying the trailer brakes, the problem with that trailer was that it did not have enough tongue weight I had to make sure that traveled with the water tank full. You need to weigh the trailer and adjust you load so that weight on the tongue is 10 to 15 percent of the total weight of the trailer, this will assure that that the center of gravity is ahead of the axels. Where are you waste and fresh water tanks located relative to the axel?

Doing this eliminates the serious sway problems, but in cross winds coming out of highway cuts and big trucks passing you may still get shoved around a little, adding the Hensley hitch helps, but that was more for when the wife was driving.

 

[Jeepr]

Yes, all of the tanks are front of the axles, in fact they are all the way at the front.

 

[GAmes]

Gary,



A Reese Dual Cam Hitch Assembly is NOT a friction sway control device and WILL resist and dampen the side to side forces you described as well as prevent sway.



I didn't use or want to use a weight distributing hitch or a sway control device as a transporter either but you and I were pulling empty, light trailers with a dually pickup. The additional tongue weight of a trailer is a good thing on a dually. The issue of tongue weight and sway control are two distinctly different forces dealt with by separate equipment. Few transporters have owned and towed a personally owned and loaded conventional travel trailer so their experience is usually limited.



I pulled conventional travel trailers for many years (1971-2003) including with a dually Dodge for the last two years of that period. Reese dual cam hitches do produce results. Reese is the oldest manufacturer in the industry and their products are legendary among old timers who have pulled trailers since the '50s or '60s.

I know all that Harvey. I was referring to the "sway brake" in post #1. I interpreted that to mean a friction sway bar, of which I own 2. One I used to use while pulling my boat behind my 5er, then realized it wasn't needed. The other came with a W/D hitch I aquired after I started transporting. I do use a W/D, the company I lease to requires them. Something about insurance coverage If the TT has a light tongue I don't because the spring bars beat me up, but toyhauler TTs I'll use it every time. I've even used it on a few occasions with loaded enclosed cargo trailers.



And yes Jeepr, I was saying the floor plan and folding dinette are not unique. However, that high of a gvwr and 5000 pound axles is unique. I'm sure you checked the tire sidewalls for a max load rating over 2500 pounds.

 

[HBarlow]

Jeepr,

It sounds like you have been doing your homework and the trailer is rated to haul your Jeep.

Have you read all the frequent threads here on TDR about tire failures when using 15" rims and tires? You might want to be prepared for the tire problems that are likely.

 

[Jeepr]

Thanks Harvey. I put the Jeep in the trailer last night, but didn't go for a ride. I had the fresh water tank full. Putting the Jeep in definately added weight to the rear (tongue got lighter), but there was still significant tongue weight. Obviously, I didn't weight it or anything.



I'm not aware of the 15" tire issue, I guess I will do some searches. I know I and others seems to be constantly be replacing the 205 tires on our flatbed trailers though.

 

[HBarlow]

Jeepr,

If you search through old threads you will find a lot of threads by members with travel trailers using 15" tires complaining of blow outs on relatively new tires and lack of decent substitute tires in that size. The most common 15" tires are now nicknamed "WILLPOP", a well-known Communist Chinese brand.

If you'll be hauling your Jeep very much it would probably be wise to consider simply replacing the wheels with six lug 16" wheels and a set of Michelin or BG Goodrich LT225/75 R16 LRE tires. The 16" tires are only approximately 1" larger in diameter (1/2" taller/1/2" closer to fenders). http://www.southwestwheel is a wheel source. There are many other sources.