WHY can my buddie's Ford eat my Dodge's lunch?

[Rams-n-Hogs]

Ram/hogs. When you say hybrid, are you refering to making it a twin turbo or something else?



QUOTE]





It's an HX-35 with a larger compressor wheel. You can go to http://www.htturbo.com, and see what I'm talking about in the upgrade guidelines section.

 

[TAbbott]

I started by re-reading your original post and with all of those mods, I don't see where you've upgraded your original air to air for a larger one, better capable of handling the job you're asking it to do. I'll bet if you compare the physical size of the air to air in that Ford with the size of the one in your 98 12 valve you'd be amazed in the difference. I don't know about whatever changes Dodge may have made when they went to the 2nd gen 4v engine, but I know of at least 2 upgrades on the 3rd gens from the latest 2nd generation. I'd think you're a prime candidate for an upgraded aftercooler -- the biggest one with the biggest inlet & outlet and the most tubes and fins you can find. Modern engines sense the inlet air temp and adjust for it, so you can probably find out your buddies inlet air temp with a good reader. On yours, all you'd need at most is to tap the intake and install a sensor and connect it to a guage. Might be easier to tap the intake horn or anywhere between the cooler outlet and the head would be fine. If that temp is over about 130 degrees at max power and the ambient temp isn't really warm you need to do something to make more cool air available to your engine. (This assumes you have a reasonable road speed at that time. You get into a death spiral mode when your road speed drops drastically unless you're really swinging a huge fan. )

 

[Forrest Nearing]

while a bigger intercooler will help with EGT's and possibly help spool-up, you don't need a bigger cooler to outrun that Ford...

 

[TAbbott]

Water/meth injection would probably do it for short periods of time.

 

[Doubleclutch]

Re. the GSK... you already have an egt problem at 2500 rpm do you think it will get better or worse at 3000 rpm?

Greg

 

[Forrest Nearing]

he's got a 62/14 turbo... it breathes better at higher RPM than the stock turbo...



a 3k GSK should be manditory on these trucks. *I* think a 4k should be manditory, but

 

[Willys]

This is probably a stupid question- but what air filter are you running? Stock? BHAF? ?

Forrest, why the 4gsk instead of a 3gsk? Better with the automatic?

 

[Doubleclutch]

Forrest- I had the 4K GSK on my truck and fully agree that it's the way to go. Engine makes best HP around 3300 or so RPM. BUT... . my HP was on the dyno, and I couldn't live with the egt on the street. New turbos are a lot better than my old melted-anchor H2E, but that's asking a lot from these new turbos. Non stock Air Intake won't help much- I had Doug Hoefeldt's Air Bulldog hood AND ram air spoiler. I would sure like to see Bart smoke the "by the side of the road with a melted engine" Ford, but I'm sure it won't be easy.

Greg

 

[DCreed]

give it time it WILL happen!

 

[terrywerm]

Sorry guys, I hate to sound stupid, but what is a 3 GSK and a 4 GSK??



Inquiring minds want to know!!



On edit: Okay, I've figured out that it has something to do with the 12 valve engines. But what?

 

[thashane]

What about aero dynamics? How much higher than the cab is your camper? I know my camper feels like a giant parachute at times. And a 66 bronco isn't the most streamline vehicle even when it's not on a trailer in the dirty air behind your camper. I know this doesn't address the egt issues, but I bet the drag coefficient on his toyhauler is significantly lower than yours with the camper and bronco in tow. Can you safely get the camper any closer to the cab? Just a thought, I'm no engineer

 

[Bart]

This is probably a stupid question- but what air filter are you running? Stock? BHAF? ?



Forrest, why the 4gsk instead of a 3gsk? Better with the automatic?

No this is NO a stupid question. I have a stock air filter/box. I "had" a BHAF on when Joe Donnelly installed the 370 injectors and changed the timing to 15. 3*. He said that the stock box was fine up to about 500 h. p. He also said that the super heated air under the hood wasn't good for egts. I saw one guy's answer to this. he punched a 4" hole in the bottom of the filter box and ran 4" abs plastic pipe out the front for more cooler air. I thought this was a good idea but haven't done it yet. Kinda looking around to see what else is available.

 

[Bart]

Sorry guys, I hate to sound stupid, but what is a 3 GSK and a 4 GSK??



Inquiring minds want to know!!



On edit: Okay, I've figured out that it has something to do with the 12 valve engines. But what?

3 or 4 GSK is a 3,000 or 4,000 rpm Governor Spring Kit. Hence 3GSK. I guess it lets the engine spin faster that normal. I'm still trying to find out if this gsk would help lower egts.

 

[Bart]

Forrest- I had the 4K GSK on my truck and fully agree that it's the way to go. Engine makes best HP around 3300 or so RPM. BUT... . my HP was on the dyno, and I couldn't live with the egt on the street. New turbos are a lot better than my old melted-anchor H2E, but that's asking a lot from these new turbos. Non stock Air Intake won't help much- I had Doug Hoefeldt's Air Bulldog hood AND ram air spoiler. I would sure like to see Bart smoke the "by the side of the road with a melted engine" Ford, but I'm sure it won't be easy.

Greg

Thanks Double clutch. My street (highway) egts are too high not to slow down. The way I'm seeing it, my air intake needs to be addressed. Either the intake elbow, bigger intercooler or ?????? Maybe, I should change the air conditioner around so that cold air is infront of the intercooler and hot air in the cab. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh the wife's gonna love that idea:-{}:{ #@$%!

 

[Forrest Nearing]

if you've got a bigger turbo that doesn't make enough boost below 1900rpm to keep things cool, then yes, being able to rev out to 3000 or more so that when you grab the next gear, you're in the turbo's sweet spot again will definately help with EGT's while towing

 

[Bart]

give it time it WILL happen!

DCreed, I agree that it'll happen. Buddy is also looking at the '08s He can afford it, I can't. I did buy a goose neck to use on my 5th wheel rails in case I have to/get to tow his toy hauler home while his rig is being towed to the nearest Ford dealer. I don't wish it on him, but it could happen. Without the pyro gauge his' askin' for it IMHO. Time will tell.

Here's something I thought about. My automatic, converting it to a 6 speed manual. I hate the limitations that the computer controlled 2nd gear has on my rpms and also having two overdrives to choose from. What say you on that idea?

 

[Bart]

if you've got a bigger turbo that doesn't make enough boost below 1900rpm to keep things cool, then yes, being able to rev out to 3000 or more so that when you grab the next gear, you're in the turbo's sweet spot again will definately help with EGT's while towing

My Switzer turbo 62/14 doesn't "come on" until around the 2K mark. Most of the time if I end up in lower gears and it climbs to around 2300-2500 rpms and I up shift the thing falls in the toilet and egts skyrocket. I'd like to go the twin turbo for the best of both worlds but I already have both of them around the house and can't see why I should buy two more. Doesn't anyone sell the means to bolt them both up? I need to look into this more. I looked at the gsk at one of the TDR sponsors and at $125 that's not a bad deal if it helps. Someone already said that I already have the valve springs. I only have the 60# exhaust springs for the exhaust brake. Do I need to also install intake springs?

 

[JThiessen]

Has Bart provided enough info to show that his pyro is in fact likely accurate? I'm still questioning it. The heat gun test he did didnt prove anything one way or another IMHO. Bart, Did you purchase the guage and pyro as a matched set? Have you ever changed the pyro probe? Your guages and pyro need to be matched in that your guage needs to read the same rang eas your pyro sends (the pyro is a thermocouple that sends a certain milivolt signal to the guage, if they arent matched, then your guage is looking for a certain signal range, while your pyro is sending another). I dunno, it just seems like your running hotter than you should be.

 

[Bart]

What about aero dynamics? How much higher than the cab is your camper? I know my camper feels like a giant parachute at times. And a 66 bronco isn't the most streamline vehicle even when it's not on a trailer in the dirty air behind your camper. I know this doesn't address the egt issues, but I bet the drag coefficient on his toyhauler is significantly lower than yours with the camper and bronco in tow. Can you safely get the camper any closer to the cab? Just a thought, I'm no engineer

I could drop the camper 3/4" lower in the bed if I removed the 5thwheel rails. I'm no engineer either, I wonder if there's anyway for us laymen to figure that one out? Thanks for that didbit of information.

 

[Bart]

Has Bart provided enough info to show that his pyro is in fact likely accurate? I'm still questioning it. The heat gun test he did didnt prove anything one way or another IMHO. Bart, Did you purchase the guage and pyro as a matched set? Have you ever changed the pyro probe? Your guages and pyro need to be matched in that your guage needs to read the same rang eas your pyro sends (the pyro is a thermocouple that sends a certain milivolt signal to the guage, if they arent matched, then your guage is looking for a certain signal range, while your pyro is sending another). I dunno, it just seems like your running hotter than you should be.

"J" The gauge/probe were a set and I got them new from Geno's. No I've never changed them out. I called Geno's to do just that and the tech said that they either work or they don't. I thought that was odd that a gauge couldn't be off, knowing that the probe is in the worst possiblem environment. What are you thinking? That I should replace the gauge and the probe as a set?