So I broke down and ordered the Carli ball joints...

[hearingyourlies]

Don't we have mod's to take care of garbage like this?



I came to this website for information and knowledge, not for trolling and online back-and-forthing.

 

[JSellers]

Don't we have mod's to take care of garbage like this?

I think the thread is far from garbage - but with the direction it's recently taken it is likely to get some moderator action.



Foolkiller, I think you are justified in your dissatisfaction. I applaud the way you've kept your cool with the flaming. I too have been reluctant to let any shop work on my vehicles, once they've shown me that they won't pay as much attention to detail as I do in my driveway.



Failures in product design and application are bound to happen in any industry. And it's probably more common here, where we have a group of enthusiasts that test products to the limit. I also applaud the guys here who use the Dodge suspensions to their fullest, either modified, customized, or tweaked the way they like it best. But please remember there can be a fine line between recommending that which has given you success, and looking like borderline cult fanatics. And a single instance of less than stellar customer service - or even the hint of inattention to complaint - can turn a company with superb product into a downhill plunge in consumer viewpoint.



I personally have KORE components - those purchased before many competitors were active in quality aftermarket parts for the Dodge 4x4 suspension design. I am predominantly satisfied, but have had a few instances of regret/disappointment. If I had to do it again I don't know what parts I would pick, but I do know that any of the vendors can make mistakes. We have to realize there can be issues with any modifications over OEM design. Aftermarket manufacturers just don't have the resources for design development like the big vehicle manufacturers.



But, we do have resources of the TDR - and that's part of what makes the big Dodges so inviting to use.



Hope for the best, but expect the worst.



I'll quit preaching now.

 

[foolkiller]

i keep telling myself that i'm done here but... .



a couple thoughts on the thread itself.



i don't think showing a little passion in your beliefs or who you favor, or not, is a bad thing. i knew i was going to get some heat from the believers. and although we all should make the effort to stick to just the facts there is some entertainment value to be had in the process.



i just reread the whole thing again and there were some posts that certainly bordered on a need for moderation, i think the moderators did a good job of letting that line flex a bit to keep info flowing. if they'd have just shut it down or closed it, they'd have risked a level of sensorship that i think we'd, in the end, rather not have. it'd be too easy for someone to just "get out of hand" on purpose, knowing they could cause the threads they don't like to be shut down.



i tried to look for the "value added" for the new guy looking for information here and honestly feel i could've made a more emotionless, or flatly better, effort at it but.....



i like freedom even if it causes some heads to butt.

 

[JDerbedrossian]

i keep telling myself that i'm done here but... .



a couple thoughts on the thread itself.



i don't think showing a little passion in your beliefs or who you favor, or not, is a bad thing. i knew i was going to get some heat from the believers. and although we all should make the effort to stick to just the facts there is some entertainment value to be had in the process.



i just reread the whole thing again and there were some posts that certainly bordered on a need for moderation, i think the moderators did a good job of letting that line flex a bit to keep info flowing. if they'd have just shut it down or closed it, they'd have risked a level of sensorship that i think we'd, in the end, rather not have. it'd be too easy for someone to just "get out of hand" on purpose, knowing they could cause the threads they don't like to be shut down.



i tried to look for the "value added" for the new guy looking for information here and honestly feel i could've made a more emotionless, or flatly better, effort at it but.....



i like freedom even if it causes some heads to butt.

Amen brother.

 

[mtnram]

ALL the joints, one carli and two moogs, and the tools to press em in and out are in the mail

Would you mind telling me what tools are required and where you purchased them?

 

[MickeyMiller]

I just had Left Coast Diesel install Carli/Moog (upper/lower) on my truck and I watched... you better have a large ball joint press with a large selection of sleeves! Depending upon where your truck has lived, you will also have the challenge of removing the hubs. I was relieved that I had LCD do mine, it would have been a driveway nightmare!

 

[mtnram]

I have selection of tools, located in sunny California and am familiar with 4x trunion joints. I'm really curious on what special tools are required.

Has there been a TDR write-up on the process?

Found this on another site

The press, I have, maybe a couple more pieces of pipe and I'll be good.

 

[foolkiller]

Would you mind telling me what tools are required and where you purchased them?

the press and adapters are coming from Quad4x4.com... . part #TS1082. its a press set, set up specific to our 3G trucks. i haven't used one yet and i'm certain there are cheaper ways to go. i like one stop shoppin and all other options looked as though they would've had me buying a press kit with a bunch of adapters that i'd never use and then still have to find adapters specific for my truck... . i may be wrong about some of my thoughts on that though. i never gave that process a chance.



where are you located? if it's convenient to do so i'd lend it.



you may need a puller for your hubs as well and a big socket, 43mm if i recall, to get the nut off the outer axle, and a torque wrench that can torque up to about 200ftlbs just ot get the range.



don't know if you need the complete list of every tool but those are the ones that most folks don't have in their arsenal. $$$... which is why some look into having it done for them. it's what some might call a pickle.



crawl under there and take a peek at it... ... you can see pretty much the whole job by just taking off the tire.



if you're going to replace the u-joints too, advisable, you'll need to look at what it takes to press those in and out... . some are really good at sacrificing a couple old sockets for this but if you can get access to a vise, or press otherwise, it makes it more enjoyable.



difficult to give advise without knowing your experience at it..... don't touch the brake pedal with the caliper off the rotor...

 

[mtnram]

Thank you! I forgot about the large mm socket for the axle. I'm familiar with wrenching, have only had my vehicles to a shop for tires, alignment, a trunion, body work, a a thermostat replace on I-5 (don't ask, forgot my tool bag) in 35 years. The rest is on me. This is the first diesel rig I've owned so there will be a learning curve and a few new tools to pick up.

about the rotor, that is what 2x4's and door shims are for, lol

Thank you for the offer on the tools. I did some searching today and it looks like (Rock Auto) I may need to pick up a few dodge specific press tool and recievers for the press.

THanks again!

 

[Bob4x4]

Otc has the ball joint tools available as well and are strong enough to last more than 1 truck worth.

 

[SCarli]

The other side of the story........

So I was made aware of this thread by quite a few people, including Foolkiller. My membership here on the TDR had expired over a year ago, so please excuse the delayed response.





Let me start by saying that my response to this thread is not to flame Foolkiller. I do think it is important though to share my side of the story on this issue to ensure that our customers do not have a tainted view of Carli Suspension because of what has been written here. We have worked too hard over the past 6 years to provide the best possible product and customer service to allow this one matter to stand unaddressed.



When I hear that we purposely ripped someone off, it puts a sick feeling in my stomach. The original quote was accurate. There were things that were added by the customer that required an adjustment of the original quote. When the customer showed up to the shop to drop off the truck and parts he was supplying to be installed, we opened the box and noticed that there were lower ball joints in the box. We then contacted him and told him that there would be an added labor charge since this was not in the original quote. He confirmed and we started work. Half way into the job the customer decided he wanted to add our sway bar endlinks into the job. No problem, we'll get it done. With that being said, the labor cost was still way below what the market sustains. We installed our upper ball joints, customer supplied lower ball joints, customer supplied u-joints for the front axles, customer supplied hub free spin kit, and our sway bar endlinks all for a whopping $600. 00 labor. Maybe I'm off here, but that seems like a very reasonable price considering the amount of work that was performed.



As for the matter of the free spin kit. We have install many of these kits in the past. This was the first time we had seen the extra dust seals. This was an oversight on our part. We should have looked into it further. When the customer contacted us after the install, he informed us he had called the manufacturer and said they were indeed part of the kit. We said we would be more than willing to redo the job and put the seals in, of course no charge. He declined. We never got the opportunity to make it right.



Most of this could have been avoided if we were given the opportunity to make it right. Monday I was contacted by the customer and made aware of one of the ball joints being tight. Tuesday a new ball joint was sent out to him along with a $250. 00 credit. (labor for ball joint install). It is not a normal practice for us to send out a credit for labor, but in this case I feel there was no other way to resolve this peacefully. I just wished he would have contacted us first before bashing us further on this thread. We may have made some mistakes in this transaction, but I don't see where we deserve to be called incompetent or thieves. I guess some people have a different perception of what good customer service.



Sage Carli

 

[ENafziger]

Most of this could have been avoided if we were given the opportunity to make it right. Monday I was contacted by the customer and made aware of one of the ball joints being tight. Tuesday a new ball joint was sent out to him along with a $250. 00 credit. (labor for ball joint install). It is not a normal practice for us to send out a credit for labor, but in this case I feel there was no other way to resolve this peacefully.

WOW! I would say this is quite amazing, except that this is the same exact customer service that I have received in every transaction with the Carli guys... they are ALWAYS willing to go above and beyond to make sure things are done right!!! The quality of parts as well as customer service are second to none...

--Eric

 

[steved]

i expected to loosen up the lower and free it up..... but NO, no change with the lower loosened... loosed up my very over priced CARLI UPPER and clearly, it was the culprit. everything came loose.



the lower torques up fine with no binding but when i put any tightness on the CARLI upper, things bind up. i have to leave it with about 30lbs of torque. any more than that and it binds.

OK, bear with me a moment...



If I remember reading correctly, the MOOGs are only available in degrees of camber adjustment... not a dead "0"?? Could the top and bottom joint be out of alignment because they are adjusted incorrectly (one at zero, the other at another angle)???

 

[FLynes]

Foolkiller,



As a fellow serviceman, I understand how important it is to count every dime. That said, if you indeed told Sage to throw in those extra parts not discussed in the original quote, you can't very well expect them to do it for free. In the miltary, we're always taught to take care of things at the lowest level. Sage did offer to make things right, and you declined, but I also understand that you live 80 miles away, and you had the truck apart already... . it's a crappy situation. The one good thing is that you did get credited $250 in labor for the ball joints. I hope things were settled to your satisfaction.

 

[foolkiller]

So I was made aware of this thread by quite a few people, including Foolkiller. My membership here on the TDR had expired over a year ago, so please excuse the delayed response.





Let me start by saying that my response to this thread is not to flame Foolkiller. I do think it is important though to share my side of the story on this issue to ensure that our customers do not have a tainted view of Carli Suspension because of what has been written here. We have worked too hard over the past 6 years to provide the best possible product and customer service to allow this one matter to stand unaddressed.



When I hear that we purposely ripped someone off, it puts a sick feeling in my stomach. The original quote was accurate. There were things that were added by the customer that required an adjustment of the original quote. When the customer showed up to the shop to drop off the truck and parts he was supplying to be installed, we opened the box and noticed that there were lower ball joints in the box. We then contacted him and told him that there would be an added labor charge since this was not in the original quote. He confirmed and we started work. Half way into the job the customer decided he wanted to add our sway bar endlinks into the job. No problem, we'll get it done. With that being said, the labor cost was still way below what the market sustains. We installed our upper ball joints, customer supplied lower ball joints, customer supplied u-joints for the front axles, customer supplied hub free spin kit, and our sway bar endlinks all for a whopping $600. 00 labor. Maybe I'm off here, but that seems like a very reasonable price considering the amount of work that was performed.



As for the matter of the free spin kit. We have install many of these kits in the past. This was the first time we had seen the extra dust seals. This was an oversight on our part. We should have looked into it further. When the customer contacted us after the install, he informed us he had called the manufacturer and said they were indeed part of the kit. We said we would be more than willing to redo the job and put the seals in, of course no charge. He declined. We never got the opportunity to make it right.



Most of this could have been avoided if we were given the opportunity to make it right. Monday I was contacted by the customer and made aware of one of the ball joints being tight. Tuesday a new ball joint was sent out to him along with a $250. 00 credit. (labor for ball joint install). It is not a normal practice for us to send out a credit for labor, but in this case I feel there was no other way to resolve this peacefully. I just wished he would have contacted us first before bashing us further on this thread. We may have made some mistakes in this transaction, but I don't see where we deserve to be called incompetent or thieves. I guess some people have a different perception of what good customer service.



Sage Carli

would anyone be shocked that i disagree with a few details here, or at least the implications in how they're stated?



see if i can do this without re-igniting anger in any of us.



i was very clear that the lowers were part of the job from word one with the young man that works your phones.....



you did not contact me (i was standing right there in the shop) about the price change until the truck had been disassembled.



the addition of the links nor the cost ascociated was never an issue for me and i never thought it was, nor should be, a freeby.



i was clear about my concern over the dust seals WHILE you were doing the job, and when you were finished, and the concern was dismissed and i was forced to check it out myself... .



how else is there for me to verify this but to take it apart to check which makes reassembly just to drive it to you a little knuckleheaded when i can just toss in the seals, reassemble and be done with it... . which caused me to feel i should be refunded THAT labor. you said "no" at the time... ...



and so on and blah blah blah...



good on you for your offers to put my truck back in your shop but i can't do it. good on you for the refund of the balljoint labor and sending the replacement balljoint. it's appreciated.



sorry i called you names. i have admitted all along that i know MANY folks are happy with your work... . it's why i called to begin with.



i know my case is the exception here. i don't like it either.



best of luck to you... . j

 

[foolkiller]

OK, bear with me a moment...



If I remember reading correctly, the MOOGs are only available in degrees of camber adjustment... not a dead "0"?? Could the top and bottom joint be out of alignment because they are adjusted incorrectly (one at zero, the other at another angle)???

as far as i've ever known... only uppers are adjustable. in any case, my moog lowers are not.



edit; the driver side works perfectly with the same parts as well.

 

[foolkiller]

Foolkiller,



As a fellow serviceman, I understand how important it is to count every dime. That said, if you indeed told Sage to throw in those extra parts not discussed in the original quote, you can't very well expect them to do it for free. In the miltary, we're always taught to take care of things at the lowest level. Sage did offer to make things right, and you declined, but I also understand that you live 80 miles away, and you had the truck apart already... . it's a crappy situation. The one good thing is that you did get credited $250 in labor for the ball joints. I hope things were settled to your satisfaction.

i can't expect them to do it for free?... well, now it all makes sense. i learned in the military that when there's two sides to a story... they NEVER match... . if they matched... . it'd be a one sided story... . everyone would be on the same side. saying the same things, with no disagreements. sounds nice. i refuse to use emoticons, but if i did i'd give you a smily face.



thanx man, j

 

[FLynes]

i can't expect them to do it for free?... well, now it all makes sense. i learned in the military that when there's two sides to a story... they NEVER match... . if they matched... . it'd be a one sided story... . everyone would be on the same side. saying the same things, with no disagreements. sounds nice. i refuse to use emoticons, but if i did i'd give you a smily face.



thanx man, j

Like I said, "if you indeed told Sage to throw in those extra parts not discussed in the original quote". I wasn't there, so only you two know what was really said.



My first MOS was 97E (Interrogator), so I completely understand the two sides never matching.

 

[DWeiler]

Glad things are resolved as i was watching this thread closely----Kore Recon went on my first ride but i was looking at other options for the 2007 DRW 4x4 Mega that i run now too. The ball joints are my main interest when i have to replace the stockers... ... . HEY SAGE/CARLI----HOW ABOUT SOME HUB ASSEMBLIES WITH ZERK FITTING INSTALLED(greasable) as your next improvement to the week front end of these rides:-laf:-laf:-laf:-laf Just a suggestion cause maybe you would sell a bagfull. (i would bite)DW

 

[foolkiller]

i see the number of views of this thread is still climbing and wish for the folks doing their research to have ALL the info available.....



so in the end.....



the carli upper ball joint in question was a good ball joint. those concerned with that should feel confident in their purchase of the ball joints.



the problem was due to an error made during initial install of the LOWER ball joint. it was not pressed in all the way. not sure exactely what that causes but binding in the movement of the knuckle is one symptom. the lower was not damaged either. took me a long while to spot this but in the end all i had to do was press the lower in the rest of the way and the knuckle moves properly now. i think... . because the lower was not pressed in all the way, proper torque on the upper caused the kingpin to pull on the inside of the case too tightly.



i'm happy with the carli uppers.



i'm satisfied with carli's efforts to correct the situation... . "make it right". i applaud his efforts in developing good stuff for our trucks.



and probably most importantly..... i really think i'd do it again, even with all the difficulties i ran into, to get heavy duty parts in my truck and there's no ill feelings left over on my end.